Electric Coolant Water Pump

[DougJones]

I've been browsing the forum and seen reference to the electric pump running on for some 3 minutes after the ignition is turned off.

 

I thought as a matter of course that I would check that mine is still working OK, which it appears to, can feel the vibration of the pump running when the ignition is on.

 

I started the car up and then switched off to see that it was performing the "run on" as it should, but it stopped running immediately after switching off. Is there a timer somewhere or is it linked to the run on of the fan in the Aux. heater and only performs the run on when the booster heater has kicked in?

 

Any thoughts or explanation would be welcome as I don't want to overheat the head etc. through lack of coolant dispersal because the pump is not clearing heated water after switch off

 

Seat Alhambra 2003 130tdi 46000 miles

[MadBaz]

It's powered by the engine cooling fan relay, there's no control to or from the booster heater. Turn the ign on but don't start car, the pump shouldn't run, then switch off and you should hear the pump running for a few minutes, if not reach in and push it against it's mounting bracket, if it then starts to work the the brushes are probably u/s.

[DougJones]

Many thanks for the reply but turning the ignition on starts the pump straight away, but as soon as I turn off the ignition the pump stops!

 

Any ideas?

[MadBaz]

Just noticed that yours is the 130ps enginehttp://www.fordgalaxy.org.uk/ford/public/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif so I think that yours is working correctly, apologies.

 

Looking at the wiring diag yours would run on with the cooling fan, when the engine is hot.

[gregers]

go for a drive,turn engine off if you cant hear it then give it a feel(ooer)if it stops straight away then as already said brushes need replacing

look in the faqs,instructions can be found there on replacement.

[DougJones]

MadBaz & gregers many thanks for the replies, but which one of you is right?

I can feel the pump running when the ignition is on with engine either running or stopped, it's just as soon as I turn off the ignition the pump stops.

 

Will try feeling the pump after a run to see if it is running, but to my knowledge I can never remember the cooling fan running, temp always peaks at 90 degrees and stays there, even when the booster heater has been running or towing a caravan in summer.

[gregers]

does your booster work correctly?i:e doesnt spool up and shut down?do you get constant heat from the heater into the cabin?.

if all ok and going by madbaz's reply then as he has said could well be all working correctly.

[DougJones]

Thanks gregers,

I had work done on the booster heater by Seat dealer some 5 years ago when I purchased the Alhambra, & it has worked OK since (had the occasional flame out, but cleared any fault codes straight away with VagCom lite and carries on working as it should). Get constant build up heat when the booster is on & reduces output just before 90 degrees, so all seems fine, have a feeling though that it won't be long before I have to renew the glow plug etc.

Get constant heat front & rear and I can feel that the rear heater matrix is hot to touch (rear panel nearside rear seat) so coolant is circulating OK.

Will keep monitoring the situation & post if anything else happens.

Many thanks.

[gregers]

just read some more info BUT apparently your run on pump may well behave the same as fitted on the 115bhp versions.

[DougJones]

Many thanks gregers, will keep an eye on the situation.

[SilverBeast]

I have a Galaxy 2005 TDI 130. I have the same symptoms. I replaced my brushes last year but as they were worn out and the pump runs only when the ignition is on.

 

 

Looking at the wiring diagram I have probed either side of Fuses 18 and 34 and these are both live with the ignition on. I also probed the relay (K245) contacts as well and the relay worked correctly. At this point I wish I'd written down what happened, but I'm pretty sure that when the ignition was turned off the live feed to the relay that drives the pump (pin 6), as well as the feed to the coil (Pin 10) both went off. I'm not sure if it's only supposed to run on when it's hot when switched off, but I have never noticed mine working in "run-on" mode.

 

Dual Air-con doesn't work so heating is always in ECON. Booster heater works fine now. Engine Temp sensor comes up with the following error code in VAG-COM

 

17664 - Engine Coolant Temp Sensor (G62): Open or Short to Plus

P1256 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent

 

Which usually comes back straight away when cleared, but sometimes doesn't. I'm pretty sure this is a wiring fault between the sensor and the Engine Management module as a replacement sensor gave the same error when connected to the wiring (but not fitted). Not sure if anything is relevant to this thread though.

[DougJones]

Thanks SilverBeast, I am now working on the assumption that if the pump works with the ignition on then the brushes are still OK and that having no run on may well be normal.

It may well be that when we get warmer weather & the whole system gets warm (including the oil temp getting up to normal) then the pump may well run on. Will monitor this as and when.

I will post on this thread if anything changes or fails relating to this situation.

Many thanks to all that have replied & offered their advice.

[jamesey]

if you turn the ign lights on and back off again you will here a click from under the bonnet then the bosch pump should run on , it did on my 115 gal , but now after a coolant change it doesnt for some reason , all i get is the click then the cooling fans kick in for a split second , is this normal?

[SilverBeast]

If yours did use to run on then it still should. I suggest you

 

(i) Make sure air con is off. Set to ECON if it's got climate control. This is to stop the cooling fans running and making a noise as I believe they run all the time the ignition is on and the air con is on - they certainly do an my 130 even though the air-con doesn't work. (ii) Turn on your ignition but don't start the engine. You should be able to hear the run-on pump.

(iii) If you can't then see if you can feel it running - you should be able to find the location doing a search on the Forum/FAQ's.

(iv) You may find that it starts running if you move the pump around.

(v) If it does start when you move it then it is more than likely the motor brushes though it could still be the wiring. Either way you will need to disconnect the plug and check the voltage at the plug to see if there is 12V when the ignition is on to be sure.

(vi) If there is no voltage then it could be a relay or fuse, though I'm not sure which ones on the 115 as I've only looked into mine. It would definitely be worth finding out which fuse it is first and checking that before you start.

 

Good luck.

[jamesey]

it was fine until i changed my radiator now ive got loads of problems , a leaky top hose and this run on pump its driving me crazy.the top hose needs a new o ring i think.

[bofus]

Just swapped a 01 for an 03 Alhambra Tdi.... The 03 does not power the run on auxiliary pump after the ignition is switched off. I have cross checked and even swapped the pumps over to prove this. My conclusion is that this was done to stop over cooling the engine during frequent stop start driving in cold weather as the aux pump seems to bypass the thermostat.

[chrispb123456]

Just swapped a 01 for an 03 Alhambra Tdi.... The 03 does not power the run on auxiliary pump after the ignition is switched off. I have cross checked and even swapped the pumps over to prove this. My conclusion is that this was done to stop over cooling the engine during frequent stop start driving in cold weather as the aux pump seems to bypass the thermostat.

Is yours a 115 or 130?

It does seem to be the case that the 130 ASZ engine doesn't have the run on that the 115 AUY engine has

[DougJones]

Just swapped a 01 for an 03 Alhambra Tdi.... The 03 does not power the run on auxiliary pump after the ignition is switched off. I have cross checked and even swapped the pumps over to prove this. My conclusion is that this was done to stop over cooling the engine during frequent stop start driving in cold weather as the aux pump seems to bypass the thermostat.

Is yours a 115 or 130?

It does seem to be the case that the 130 ASZ engine doesn't have the run on that the 115 AUY engine has

 

Just to confirm from the original query on this thread, that my Alhambra has the 130 ASZ engine, which would seem to confirm that this is the reason for my electric pump not running on.

 

I have contacted Seat technical section in the past about cambelt change times, and they were very helpful. I will see if I can find there number again (filed away somewhere!) and see if they can clarify the situation re: which models have the run on facility, or if all of them should have this feature.

[chrispb123456]

That'll be very interesting Doug keep us updated :(

[bofus]

Just to confirm...the 2001 car was an AUY 115PS the 2003 car is a 130PS ASZ.....

 

Just about 2.5 years apart on build date....but some many subtle differences...also the newer lower mileage car has many 'niggles' such as crack wiring in the door jams, rear washer pipe pulled apart, headlamp motors seized, run on pump seized, U/S aircon, all the usual stuff that the old car never had issues with....ooh the price of progress :-)

[DougJones]

Just had a reply from Seat technical dept. it's as stated above, the 130 tdi with the ASZ engine - the electric coolant pump does NOT run on but the 115 does.

 

Hope this helps anyone else who like me, thought there was a problem. As long as the pump runs OK with the ignition on, then it's OK, but if it runs intermittently then brushes could be a problem (assuming there is no loose wiring)

 

Many thanks to all who have contributed information.

[chrispb123456]

Just had a reply from Seat technical dept. it's as stated above, the 130 tdi with the ASZ engine - the electric coolant pump does NOT run on but the 115 does.

 

Hope this helps anyone else who like me, thought there was a problem. As long as the pump runs OK with the ignition on, then it's OK, but if it runs intermittently then brushes could be a problem (assuming there is no loose wiring)

 

Many thanks to all who have contributed information.

Thanks for the info Doug that will put a few peoples minds at rest.

[tezerez]

Just had a reply from Seat technical dept. it's as stated above, the 130 tdi with the ASZ engine - the electric coolant pump does NOT run on but the 115 does.

 

Hope this helps anyone else who like me, thought there was a problem. As long as the pump runs OK with the ignition on, then it's OK, but if it runs intermittently then brushes could be a problem (assuming there is no loose wiring)

 

Many thanks to all who have contributed information.

Thanks for the info Doug that will put a few peoples minds at rest.

Perhaps this might make the brushes last longer? Mine (130ASZ) still going at 101000. Here's hoping

Edited March 7, 2012 by tezerez