Rough Idle - Help

[wackojackouk]

Hi guys

 

My TDI is costing me a fortune and I'm getting frustrated with it. Really feel I bought a wrong un now or it's just getting old and needs to be sold on. Anyway wonder if any of you can help me out here.

 

Got the car back from the mechanic today after noticing a leak which turned out to be the gearbox sump nut. The gearbox mount rubber was knackered as well so he fitted a new mount which was about

[chrispb123456]

Possibly changing the stabiliser mount has made the engine more rigid and is now transferring the imbalance through the car, DMF may well be the cause of this and usually gets worse in the latter stages.

 

Injector misfire can come up as a fault code in engine module but look in measuring blocks also for injector balance I think it's block 013

 

Did you change your alternator pulley when doing the tensioner?

[seatkid]

Its possible you just have dirty coked up injectors which have poor spray patterns most noticeable at low loads. More noticeable by fitting a new stiff mount. I would be inclined to run some injector cleaner through before diving into other areas. My personal favourite is Millers diesel ECOmax additive. Put in a double dose for the first 2 tanks followed by normal dosing. After 3 tanks the injectors should be cleaned. You can speed the process a bit by doing good old italian tune ups while you have the additive in the tank. (i.e. full throttle in 3rd gear under max load from 1500rpm to redline several times) - you should notice lots of black smoke the first few times, slowly clearing away over until many runs later she runs clear.

 

Another possibilty may be worn injector cam lobes caused by using non PD oil. Only an inspection of the camshaft will reveal that. But I think you would have noticed more running issues in this case.

[wackojackouk]

Hi guys

 

Many thanks for your quick replies much appreciated.

 

Hooked up VCDS on the Engine Module (found the intermittant speed one which sometimes crops up) and nothing else.

 

Went to Measuring Block 13 and let the car run for about 3 or 4 mins and then done a print screen

 

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m173/wackojackouk/Ford%20Galaxy/th_engineblock.jpg

 

Does this point to anything?

 

Regarding the work done, the invoice states the following so don't think the pulley itself was changed. I know mine doesn't have the one way one - he double checked with GSF/Eurocar Parts and with Ford.

 

Lower Gearbox Mounting

Auxilliary Drive Belt

Auxilliary Belt Tensioner

Gearbox Oil

 

// Seatkid - I might give this a go if you think it's worth it. I did chuck in a shot of Redex Diesel stuff tonight. Was the last bit left (maybe 1/4 bottle) as I had turbo vanes issues awhile back and this kinda solved it with some thrashing lol

Edited March 10, 2012 by wackojackouk

[zorgman]

when i fitted .216 injectors my engine had a rough/romping tickover just the way your describing. give the injector cleaner a try as it could be down to injectors clogging, bad thing is your also describing dmf vibration is it still there with clutch in.

[chrispb123456]

Hi guys

 

Many thanks for your quick replies much appreciated.

 

Hooked up VCDS on the Engine Module (found the intermittant speed one which sometimes crops up) and nothing else.

 

Went to Measuring Block 13 and let the car run for about 3 or 4 mins and then done a print screen

 

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m173/wackojackouk/Ford%20Galaxy/th_engineblock.jpg

 

Does this point to anything?

 

Regarding the work done, the invoice states the following so don't think the pulley itself was changed. I know mine doesn't have the one way one - he double checked with GSF/Eurocar Parts and with Ford.

 

Lower Gearbox Mounting

Auxilliary Drive Belt

Auxilliary Belt Tensioner

Gearbox Oil

 

// Seatkid - I might give this a go if you think it's worth it. I did chuck in a shot of Redex Diesel stuff tonight. Was the last bit left (maybe 1/4 bottle) as I had turbo vanes issues awhile back and this kinda solved it with some thrashing lol

Good news is the injector balance is well within spec but the timing isn't but looks like your engines cold check block 004 again when engines hot, I will check mine in the morning but I'm sure mine runs at 0 TDC

 

Have you had the cam belt changed recently?

[wackojackouk]

Thanks Zorgman, Chris for your comments.

 

Zorg - Worried about the DMF thing now - how much does that cost? - TBH I think it's there with the clutch in or not and the car in gear.

 

Chris - I'll check it tomorrow - I have a trip to the dump which will take 20 mins there, 20 back. I'll post up Block 4 and 13 simultaneously if that helps.

 

Cambelt was changed when I bought the car about 2 and half years ago. As I mentioned earlier the Auxilliary Belt Tensioner and Auxilliary Drive Belt was changed today and to be honest it was ok prior to this - is this the timing chain/belt? (not a car expert lol) and if the ones changed today weren't tight enough could this be part of the issue?

Edited March 10, 2012 by wackojackouk

[zorgman]

take off the aux belt see if it changes things, its a belt for timing

[chrispb123456]

Thanks Zorgman, Chris for your comments.

 

Zorg - Worried about the DMF thing now - how much does that cost? - TBH I think it's there with the clutch in or not and the car in gear.

 

Chris - I'll check it tomorrow - I have a trip to the dump which will take 20 mins there, 20 back. I'll post up Block 4 and 13 simultaneously if that helps.

 

Cambelt was changed when I bought the car about 2 and half years ago. As I mentioned earlier the Auxilliary Belt Tensioner and Auxilliary Drive Belt was changed today and to be honest it was ok prior to this - is this the timing chain/belt? (not a car expert lol) and if the ones changed today weren't tight enough could this be part of the issue?

Have checked my timing when hot, it is showing 0.03ATDC

 

The auxiliary belt and tensioner you had changed will not affect your timing, this belt only drives the alternator, aircon and power steering.

 

The timing belt and tensioner is inside the plastic cover and cannot be seen until the covers removed.

 

Would be interested in looking at your alternator pulley can you post a pic of it because a fixed solid pulley would cause the same problems as when the clutch type pulley seizes up.

[wackojackouk]

Guys, thank you ever so much for your input so far, I really value your help.

 

Anyway used the car today and it's still not running right. Again it's not shuddering or shaking violently but you can feel the vibrations through your legs and the doors do shake when open. I know it's a derv but it wasn't like this before.

 

I also got some of the millers stuff Seatkid recommended and chucked in a double dose, went down one junction of the M25 at 70 in third gear - not really sure what an italian tune up is though :rolleyes:

 

Enough rambling, something else cropped up today as well. Got to the dump and heard what I thought was a loud blowing or metal clanking noise (hard to describe) but my first thought was like an exhaust blow (or even a head gasket but not quite as loud) but from the front. Only at low revs/idling though. I turned the car off, emptied the stuff at the dump and drove home. It came back intermittently only when idling/pulling away in 1st/2nd I guess. Got home, went to show the missus and no noise :(

 

Got VCDS out and hooked up and got two more readings for you guys... (see below)

 

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m173/wackojackouk/Ford%20Galaxy/th_engineblock2.jpg

 

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m173/wackojackouk/Ford%20Galaxy/th_engineblock3.jpg

 

Any more tips, as I'm on the blower to the Mechanic first thing tomorrow - pooping it a bit now with the EuroDisney trip next Sunday am :(

 

I'll try and take a picture of the pulley area later or first thing tomorrow when the lights better and post up.

 

Thanks again guys

 

WJUK

[chrispb123456]

Your timing looks fine now it's warmed up although the idle RPM should be down to about 840 not 903

Will await your photo.

[wackojackouk]

Your timing looks fine now it's warmed up although the idle RPM should be down to about 840 not 903

Will await your photo.

 

Any idea of what might cause it to be idling too high? - Also would idling slower stop the vibrate?

 

Will take a picture tomorrow of the alternator area as best I can.

[chrispb123456]

Higher tickover speed is usually a faulty coolant sensor but you haven't had a fault code for this, reading back previous you mentioned an intermittent speed fault what was this referring to. (code number)

Am still thinking on this pulley, have not known a fixed pulley on these cars, it causes a few problems when a pulley seizes e.g jerky steering, odd squeaking/schreiking noises, alternator workshop light flashing on, erratic auxiliary belt tensioner.

 

Fortunately it's easy to test the pulley but requires removing belt from alternator then placing a screw driver in the fan blades of the alternator, the pulley should turn easily anticlockwise but locked when turning clockwise.

[wackojackouk]

Hi Chris

 

Here's the code:

 

17948 - Vehicle Speed Signal: Signal too High

 

P1540 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent

 

Here's the photo of the belt. Not sure if this is good enough though.

 

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m173/wackojackouk/Ford%20Galaxy/th_alternator1.jpg

 

Ta

 

WJUK

[wackojackouk]

Hi Chris

 

Just thinking worse case scenario and it's DMF - I stumbled across that the DMF had a recall by Ford here.

 

How would I check that mine would fall under that (or not)?

 

I'm sure my 1st registration date is Sept 2003 (recall states 31/8/03) but the car was obviously built more than a month before the 1st registration date.

 

Is it worth ringing Frauds?

 

Ta

 

WJUK

Edited March 12, 2012 by wackojackouk

[chrispb123456]

These things are always worth a try I suppose, but consider the fact the car is getting on for ten years old it's likely to have already had a replacement clutch & flywheel fitted, was there any service history with the car?

Looking at your alternator picture it looks exactly like mine, get a second opinion, have you an independent alternator/starter repairer in your area they could confirm which is fitted.

 

Did you have the speed signal fault before the current problem

[NikpV]

have you tested the lternator pulley for freewheel ?

[chrispb123456]

Nik the OP's been told it is a fixed pulley

[NikpV]

Nik the OP's been told it is a fixed pulley

 

Hi Chris I read through these posts I cant see where he says its fixed ....

. I woud have thought that this would be very unsusal for a car of this age and assumed its the freee wheel type??? . I saw your post looking for a photo of the alternator so guessedyou were on this track as well. I wonder if in the past its been changed to a fixed pulley and they slackened the tension on the belt because of this problem, if its now been put back on tight would the problem now shows -

[chrispb123456]

Nik the OP's been told it is a fixed pulley

 

Hi Chris I read through these posts I cant see where he says its fixed ....

. I woud have thought that this would be very unsusal for a car of this age and assumed its the freee wheel type??? . I saw your post looking for a photo of the alternator so guessedyou were on this track as well. I wonder if in the past its been changed to a fixed pulley and they slackened the tension on the belt because of this problem, if its now been put back on tight would the problem now shows -

Apologies Nik the OP says "one way type", page 4 of the topic.

I did wonder myself if someone had changed to the fixed type by mistake and as you say replacing the tensioner has now caused the problem, OP did say this problem has occurred since replacing tensioner and belt.

[wackojackouk]

Morning guys

 

The mechanic is going to take a look again tomorrow but the car made the clanging/blowing noise again this morning when at low speeds. It's still vibrating quite a bit.

 

AFAIK the mechanic checked the alternator part # with Eurocarparts and also Fords as he thought it would be the one way wheel initially as well and was told it was the 2 way one.

 

Where is the part number on the alternator anyway. I could put my head under and take a note of it and double check if need be.

 

Do you also think this pulley etc could be causing all the vibrations? - would it be worth seeing if the vibrations were there without the belt on? - and could this damage the car if we tried this? (sorry if this is a dumb question).

 

Cheers

 

WJUK

[chrispb123456]

Remove the belt start engine and see if vibration is still present, it will not damage the car although wouldn't recommend driving it as you won't have any power steering and the alternator light will be on but running the engine should be enough to confirm if vibration is still present or not

 

These pulleys cause a lot of weird noises, I have just changed one on a renault scenic it was causing a really rough tick over and clanking knocking shreaking noise

[wackojackouk]

Remove the belt start engine and see if vibration is still present, it will not damage the car although wouldn't recommend driving it as you won't have any power steering and the alternator light will be on but running the engine should be enough to confirm if vibration is still present or not

 

These pulleys cause a lot of weird noises, I have just changed one on a renault scenic it was causing a really rough tick over and clanking knocking shreaking noise

 

Hi guys

 

Quick update. Took the car into my mechanic today and it was making a terrible noise like a clunking metal sound from the engine block area.

 

Mechanic had a look and said initially he didn't think it was DMF but had a look for a bit longer and sussed out where the clanking was coming from. He works on an estate with a couple of other car places and he called over someone else who said he had done a Sharan about a month ago and it sounded similar and they did the DMF as they discovered it was knackered.

 

The other matey then proceeded to put the clutch in and out whilst a few small revs and the noise got a lot louder so it seems that the DMF is on it's way B)

 

First of all I need the car for France this weekend and it won't be replaced by then so will be trying to get a hire car but could someone tell me what is the worst case scenario IF I decide to take my car as it is (btw when I got home it had shut up with the noise).

 

Secondly, can anyone tell me what the damage I can expect to my pocket for a DMF. I presume you change the Clutch at the same time and I think the mechanic said something about something Concentric or Hydraulic Slave but it might not have that.

 

Anyway, my (piece of sh*t) sorry Gal is a 115bhp 53 plate TDI so if anyone can pass on details where to get the parts cheapish it would be appreciated. He said he would get me a price but probably around