Steve P

Well cheerio folks - thanks for all the help over the many years we've had the old Gal - time to move on. Decided to make use of the scrappage scheme which combined with a decent discount mean't that we got a good deal on a new Kuga. If anybody is interested there will be a 1999 2.3 GLX galaxy with LPG conversion in Albert Looms scrapyard very soon - maybe even this weekend. We handed the car over to TCH Ford this evening who are only a mile or so from the scrapyard where the car will go so I suspect it will go there tomorrow. Everything works, all 7 seats are as new (we had covers on them the whole life of the car - why do people do that - crazy I know!!) - four nearly new tyres. Overall in pretty good condition - just getting a bit tired and I whilst I don't mind restoring classic minis repairing the gal was not fun anymore. Cheers Steve

Great - that's exactly the sort of thing - where did you get it from. One question I have is to be sure that I am using the right timing mark on the crank sprocket. If No 2 is at TDC then I think the key will be at the top - and hence the mark that you are showing is a bit further round. As I say one of the problems I have is that the lower chain don't have any coloured links on it anymore - is there any other way of timing it? Cheers Steve

Anybody got any technical info on how to set the balance shaft timing on the 2.3. I replaced the camshaft timing chain and the new chain came with coloured links on it so it was easy to set up. Unfortunately the supplier sent the wrong lower chain (which drives the oil pump and balance shafts from the lower crank sprocket) so I had to re-use the old chain. The coloured links had long since faded so the best that I could do was to count the links on a not very clear photo in the haynes manual and use that to set the number of links between the marks on the crank sprocket and balance shaft sprocket. However at high revs the engine does seem to buzz a bit so I think I must have got it wrong. Is there any better technical info available. I have a Ford TIS but this don't to given much help about taking the engine apart. Thanks Steve

The screw that holds down the clamp which holds the two flexi pipes from the fuel rail is an absolute **************!. First time I did this there was no way that I could have undone and replaced it without an inspection mirror. The problem is that you jsut can't see the thing and you will struggle to get at it - but it can be done! Steve

Never touched the throttle pos sensor - is yours different? On mine it is bolted onto the throttle body so there is no need to alter any setting. The throttle body has 4 screws attaching it to the inlet manifold - undo those and the body comes away with the tps attached. No gaskets required - there are 4 rubber rings which go between the inlet manifold and the head. These do eventually go hard and start to leak - it would be a good idea to replace them - they're about

The old Gal Lives!! It's taken ages - seemed like major surgery at times - cost quite a bit too. Managed to get a second hand head -

I've done it on a mark 1 2.3 a couple of times now - funny but it gets easier each time :lol: . You'll need some deep sockets - a small inspection mirror and lots of patience. First time I did there was was lots of cursing! Make sure that you remove the lifting bracket on the left hand side of the head - as you look at the fron of the car. Also you will have to reconnect the oil pressure switch from underneath so make sure that you take the undertary off before you disable the car!! Cheers Steve

Well it's been a while what with holidays, work, vectra failing it's MOT (it's only a 2005!!). Anyway finally got the head off today and did not find the mess that I was expecting. the head has a tiny crack between one of the exhaust valves and the spark plug hole. This must be why the plug eventually came loose - causing the coil to fail then taking another cylinder out of operation. Couldn't see anything wrong with the head gasket - although with it being a three piece sandwich affair it could have failed in the middle layer I suppose. However all the pistons look the same and the head chambers are all the same except for number two which is a little blacker - not much. Can't see why I got the compression figures I did. The bores look very good for 100K - I wouldn't be disappointed if the car had only done 50K - there is no lip at all! My thoughts on this are:- Operator error - did I remember to open the throttle? The gauge is bust - I did notice on the the one good figure I managed to get that it gauge was leaking and would not hold the reading. - it was leaking slowly. Anyway I need to get a valve spring compressor - neither of the two I've got reach deep enough - oh dear!! Anybody else had a head crack like this? Is it likely to be repairable (never had a head repaired before). I could try and get a second hand head but chances are it'll cost almost as much as some people are selling engines for and there is no gaurantee it will be any better! Cheers Steve

Drive shaft - normally worse when cornering but could be so far gone that it rattles around when straight as well. Is it related to engine or car speed - you said it stops at idle but that is not clear. Does it do it the car is moving but you are in neutral? Does it do it if rev the engine but car not moving? Strut mounts - they don't last forever - have they worn again - we only got about 5 years out of ours form so new so ours will need doing again soon (assuming I can fix / find an engine!!). Steve

Ok thanks. Once I've got the head off I'll know what I'm looking at. If I go for a rebuild I might be in touch for some of those bits you've got. If there's any risk of bent conrods, crank or the cost of a rebore and regrind looks silly I'll be after another engine. I'll post an update in a few days - probably not till the weekend. Thanks

142,000 is not too bad. We've run LPG for almost 90,000 miles and saved a small fortune. I do wonder though if the piston or valves run a tad hotter and that's what causes problems. Where did you get your engine from - did you use the on-line scrappers or was it ebay. Thanks

Have just looked at your other posts - LPG !!! Do we have a theme here. How many miles had your engine done?

Thanks Davie - is yours that head that is on Ebay? What did you do - did you manage to get another engine?

Thanks for the replies so far. It's not making any clattering noises and I did get a neighbour to crank it over whilst I peered down the plug holes with a torch - I thought all the pistons were going up and down? Have started to look round on Ebay for a cheap Gal ( - ha - that's a joke - they all seem to have intergalactic miles on them and even then they want silly money) or a replacement engine. I think my engine choice is limited to the plain 2.3 - anything else would be too much work. Even a 2.3 Zetec I'm guessing might have additional sensors, new ECU etc?? Ours has only got 105K miles on it so I have a real mental block with buying anything anywhere near that mileage - although I see many go way beyond this. Ah -well - I didn't have anything better to do than spend hours pulling the old gal apart :lol: Cheers Steve

Looks like it might be curtains for the old gal - we've had it for years - I've mended just about everything on it but I fear the end is nigh!! :lol: Wife was driving down the dual carriage way when the gal started running a bit rough. Then she noticed lots of smoke out of the exhaust with stares from passing motorists! Pulls over and gets the recovery service out. When I get to look at her a very strange crime scene. Tried cranking it over. Spins over fast but not doing much - can't even hear it trying to do anything - no compression type noises Took the cover off the coils and one of them has failed big time - grey smoke everywhere. However deeper investigation reveals much worse - the plug under the coil has come adrift, the ht connection between the coil and plug is wrecked. Strangely the plug electrode looks a perfect colour - but the gap is completely closed. The plug thread in the head is wrecked. Not sure exactly what has happened so try to do a compression test:- No1 - zero - no compression! No2 - can't fit the gauge as this is the one with the failed plug and thread. No3 - about 180 No4 - fed up by this point so can't remember. Pistons go up and down and the cam visible through the oil filler cap goes round - so I know the cam chain hasn't failed! Clearly the head has got to come off to have a helicoil fitted in the No2 spark plug hole. I fear though it will be much worse when I delve deeper!! Anybody know how long to remove a head on the 2.3? I've had a look in the haynes and it is awful - the procedure jumps through three or four sections - so I thought I'd ask on here first. Thanks

There is no doubt you have got to do something - you can't keep driving now? Comments. Gas - smell - this could be gas leaking out of the inlet manifold. This shows up at idle and low speed. At higher speeds the airflow through the engine bay probably washes any spare gas away. Size of leak. Typically we are talking VERY small leaks to have a noticeable effect. In the past if ours has back fired it has tended to blow a vac pipe off or a blank off the top of the manifold. This has a huge effect - and we are only talking 1/4 inch dia. The engine struggles to idle and is very lumpy - you have to rev it when coming to a stop or let it cut out then restart when you want to go again? Also when it's doing this other things happen - like the cat gets red hot and starts to smell quite bad - probably because it is running so rough there is a lot of unburnt fuel in the exhaust. It could be that you now have two problems - the first caused the engine to run weak and misfire - which has then blown a pipe /cap off making it now run very rough. I would say that the leak that I have just fixed on mine was only thou's wide and over about a one inch length on two of the o rings - not much at all. You wont see it with an inspection mirror -I doubt that you would be able to see it if you had the head and manifold on a bench in front of you. I could only JUST tell there was probably a leak once the manifold was off by inpecting the head with the mirror and strong light and looking at the O ring witness mark. The inspection mirror is used to help see the back of the head for locating bolts/pipes / connectors etc. If a coil pack has given up this is best investigated with a spare set of ignition leads - lift the coil packs off the head and fit the leads in between the packs and the plugs. You can then do checks such as pulling off one lead at a time to see if it makes a difference. If it does - move on to the next plug - if not check to see if the coil is giving a spark. You might find one plug smells of petrol if it's not working at all. Compression Tests - I agree this can show faults but only bad ones. I did test mine while I had it in bits - results were 210/185/210/210. I could have got excited about the 185 - haynes suggested this MIGHT be a worn cam lobe. To be honest it could be lots of things. 185 is a reasonable figure on a cold engine so rather than take the cam cover off (which I was contemplating) I decided to press on and ignore it for now. Wise decision with hindsight. It might be showing some other underlying problem but the thing is running so sweet now I'll investigate if it causes a problem - might repeat the check with a hot engine. Plug colour - again can show bad problems isolated to one cylinder - but depends how bad it is. Mine all looked a little weak but nothing to write home about. I would say that I could not tell which ports had been leaking (unless they all were!). Good luck!! Steve

Well - I've fixed mine today - and it was along the lines of what I originally thought. There was an air leak at the inlet manifold. As well as letting a small amount of air in at higher vacuum conditions - e.g at idle - this was clearly causing the noise (including probably letting valve noise out!) I have isolated the leak to the rubber o rings (although they are not actually O's). I did this because when I went to order some new ones (about

One bit of info I forgot to add - which made me think leaking /broken inlet manifold. Our lpg system works by filling the whole inlet manifold with gas. Wife had been complaining of a gas smell when sitting in traffic or when returning to the car - but only if had been running on LPG. I had ruled out a gas leak because switching the LPG off got rid of the smell. The main solenoid is under the bonnet and leak checking after there is easy - which I had done. Added to the other symptoms I'd convinced myself it was an inlet manifold leak!! Steve

Well I'll keep you posted - I've already started to take ours apart and my wife is asking when it will be fixed - it's her runabout. I'm not expecting Ford to be able to comment at all - other than to tell me how much of a mortgage I need for the o rings! It's not as though as though I can let them listen to the noise now that I have it in bits - and TBH I have very little confidence in most garages - unless the fault is obvious or there is a fault code they just start changing bits without thinking too much. I'll do a compression test tomorrow and advise. Whilst I had the inlet manifold off I was thinking of upgrading to a sequential LPG front end. With this doubt over what the problem is I'll defer justifying that expenditure with the boss!!! Steve

Makes no odds whether it's on petrol or LPG - sounds about the same. My system is none sequential - hence the misfires we've had - suspect ridway's is newer so probably sequential. I'll do a compression test tomorrow afternoon - haven't the faintest what figures to expect on a stone cold engine but will do a comparison across all four. If it is the head at least everything I have done so far is in the right direction- thankfully not bolted anything back on yet. The inlet valves look ok - no evidence of overheating (using a mirror and torch peering down the inlet)- I know that's not worth much - but I did think to at least look. I so hope i haven't got to take the head off!!!!!! Steve

I'm having exactly the same problem at the moment - and we have a 2.3 with LPG on it. I think this is just a co-incidence though. Haven't noticed any water loss - I really hope there isn't any because then we may be looking at head gasket - which I really don't fancy doing at all. I was thinking that it must be inlet manifold so I have got that off at the moment (that's a job and a half - ask if you need any tips!!!) Our LPG has backfired a number of times over the years ( it's one of the older single point injection systems) - wrecking the air filter housing and blowing various vac pipes off - so I was thinking that given it's a plastic manifold perhaps it's become cracked. There was quite a bit of noise coming from the back of the head - I'm sure I could hear the valves - there was a quite a tinny tapping noise. However there was also a much deeper noise harder to describe - a bit like a vac pump that you get hear on some diesels. All the noise was coming from the gearbox end of the engine - seemed to be round the back. So I was thinking that it was in fact the inlet valves I could hear and the deep noise was vacuum being pulled. The inlet tracts on these these are very long so if just one is leaking I suspect the "suck" would be more in time with the cylinder rather than being balanced across all 4 (unless I'm thinking too hard as well). The inlet manifold doesn't have a gasket as such but uses shaped rubber rings to seal against the head - I was hoping that they've gone hard with age and stopped sealing. I'll be ringing frauds in the morning to see how much they cost - they look expensive - to be honest I couldn't see any evidence of leakage and you've set me thinking now. Perhaps I should have done a compression test first. I'll do that next if I don't fix it with new manifold gaskets - although I could do a cold check now before I start putting things back on. The engine seemed reasonably smooth - perhaps a tad rough at idle but certainly nothing like when only running on 3 if a coil packs up. MPG seemed to be about normal. It's been like this for some months (doesn't get used that much) so I would have expected to notice water loss / water in the oil etc. I'll pull the plugs out as well. Have you any plans to do any investigation? Do have access to a sytem to do a pressure check on the coolant system to rule out head gasket - I know I can't do that myself. Looks like we'll be comparing notes for a few days!!!!!!!!!!!! Steve

The price difference between the accessory belt tensioner (which comes complete with a new pulley) and the other idler pulley on the belt is quite a lot.

Well I've read all the info and connect the various gauges up again and am still struggling. On Petrol. The AFR meter spliced into the lambda probe wiring swings back and forth across the optimal range with the engine at idle. GOOD! With the u581 connected the live data for 02S11 reads about 0.45 volts and the % is 0. GOOD! Switch to LPG. The AFR meter spliced into the lambda probe wiring swings back and forth across the optimal range with the engine at idle. GOOD! With the u581 connected the live data for 02S11 reads about 0.15 volts and the % is -34%. Pending codes show 02S11 too lean (can't remember actual words). OH DEAR! So I try adjusting the LPG idle mixture. I can see it changing a bit on the AFR meter - enough to work out that clockwise is richer and anticlockwise is weaker. It's very hard to set it accurately using a gauge that swings nearly 180 degress! But I know I'm about right because half a turn one way and the engine idle drops and half a turn the other way it drops, and I have it set roughly between the two extremes. The idle sounds smooth However with it set like this I'm still getting about 0.1 volts out of the U581. Whilst typing this in I've remembered something one of the installers said with one of my earlier LPG motors - something suggesting that the lambda signal to the Engine ECU is interrupted or altered when the LPG ECU takes contol. If the car were really running with a lambda voltage of about 0.1 would you expect it to be rough? You might wonder why I'm wittering about this but I'm still trying to get to the bottom of why our gal is so damn thirsty. Perhaps the loose MAF plug I posted about elsewhere won't have helped - but that only showed up recently as slightly lumpy idle. Any comments ? Thanks Steve PS - I'll obviously have to go and find an LPG forum.

Thanks - I'll try again tomorrow - I have managed to find some more info on the web as well. Should I not be able to achieve about 0.45 volts on LPG as well - because even though some of the emissions are reduced (because LPG is cleaner) I should still be aiming for Stoic with minimum free 02? Thinking about it - the AFR meter only uses voltage - it's just that it's a lot easier to plug the code reader in rather than root about under the bonnet splicing wires to connect the AFR in. Cheers Steve.

Anybody out there know where I can get an explanation of what part of data means from my fault code reader? I have the memoscan U581. Tried the manufacturers website but no joy yet. When reading live data I want to understand the read out from the 02 Sensor. Reason is that I am trying to understand some funny readings when running on LPG. On petrol the 02 voltage is about 0.7 volts and there is a % reading which reads about 0%. Obviously these readings change as you drive about. I thought that % reading was emissions - CO perhaps. However when I switch to LPG the readings aren't as sensible. The LPG system is an old one and there are some adjustments - it's not fully automatic. Anyway on LPG the voltage tends to be closer to 0 and the % goes very high - 25% or more. I tried adjusting the LPG system but not a lot seemed to be happening so I thought I'd better check exactly what these readings are. Previously I have set the system up using anAir / Fuel Meter plugged into te Lambda probe and this seemed to work quite well (or I thought it did!!) If the O2 voltage had gone up and the % readings had gone up I might have been less confused. However I am ASSUMING that a rich mixture gives a higher voltage and a higher CO ? So I suppose I have two questions really:- 1. What is the % reading on a u581 memoscan live data (the parameter was something like 02S11) 2. How does a lambda probe work - does a rich mixture give a higher voltage? Thanks for any help. Steve