Scorpiorefugee

Please forgive my persistence but have you tried to disconnect the temperature sensor. It proves everything else in one quick test. I speak from experience having spent a lot of time groping around in the fuse/relay panels only to find that all was ok and then had to resort to the electical diagrams before I realised that an apparently silly sugestion on the first reply to my query had provided the answer. It is a very common fault.

Quick check for you. Locate the coolant temparature sensor and disconnect it. It is located in a piece of plastic moulding somewhere about halfway across the front of the cylinder head. There have been a few posts on this. Once disconnected, the glow plug light will come on for several seconds every time you start up. You can check the electrical circuits by measuring the feed to the glow plugs with a meter or easier, with a test lamp. The temperature sensor is in 2 parts and the one which is used for the gauge is usually OK but the other can fail, telling the control system that the engine is hot and doesn't need the glow plugs. A typical symptom is that the cooling fans will fire up when you switch off and keep running for some time, even when the engine is cold. Beware of the wiring. It can become brittle and typically, the earth will fall off. Don't worry about the ozone layer. The glow plugs are not really important in this weather. A lot of rubbish has been written about them. They are either on or off and seldom operate for more than a second or so before starting. After that they are kept warm by the normal engine firing cycle. I'm no expert but I've checked and in the summer, they will only be on for a second when you fire up from cold. After that, you don't need them until the engine cools down again. Hope this helps.

Sounds like you got a good deal. Let's just hope it's fixed now because nothing else really makes much sense. I have heard of gasket failure but I think with these symptoms that is probably a result not a cause. Ron

I believe that this can happen if you do not have the correct amount of gas in. Up and down hill does seem to support that. When I eventually found someone with the kit and who knew how to use it, the first thing they did was to put it on a full test cycle which apparently takes up to an hour or more. They cannot tell how much gas is in there without taking it out and vaccum testing it and putting the right amount back in. They do this with Bosch equipment and charge

Sorry if you've spent on this and not got a result. My local garage now replaces the water pump as standard with the cam belt 'cos it is so common. The symptoms do seem to match exactly so you may be in the right area.Did they give you the old one? Re the thermostat. If it is stabilising at all, and it seems to be, it still points to restricted circulation. Whatever you've spent so far is an investment in the future so it shouldn't be all bad. I can't comment on the thermostat because of late I've come to trust my garage so much I just let them get on with it. Are you sure you still have the problem? Ron.

Sounds a bit familair. Could well be the water pump has shed it's impeller. Typical symptoms are it will be ok if you cruise at a stady 50 or even just at standstill at tickover. As soon as you put any load on it overheats. You can continue at low speed and use your heater to keep the engine cool but watch the temp gauge. If you don't get it fixed you may wreck your head gasket, that will be seen to be the cause of the problem and, Hey Presto, several

Ska, I'm no expert but I have had problems lately. First, if the pressure switch is indicating low pressure, thepump clutch will not pull in. Second, a simple pressure test will not indicate how much gas is in the system. It can be at workung pressure but still not work. I pumped a whole can of top up gas into mine and the pressure read OK and the pump started to work but I had no aircon until I took it to a specialist who filled it up properly. The aircon then worked but leaked so he emptied it and repaired it, then refilled it and it is now OK. Hope this helps.

Mike, It sounds like the one that caused my problem. Cost about

Dodge, I couldn't agree more. Common sense told me all that but I was misled by some reports of success. I think the problem from the beginning is finding out where to go and how much you should expect to pay. I also think that some of the horror stories are a bit off putting. This is why I opened this topic. It might be an idea to set up a recommended dealer/specialist list. Any comments admin?? If we restrict ourselves to those we can speak well of, surely no-one can complain. Ron.

Just another possibility but much about the same. Is the 2L petrol unit similar to that used in the Scorpio. If so, ot is common for a core plug to start to leak in the cylinder head with much the same results. I found leaving the radiator cap off while standing helped but in the end mine just had to go. The repair is much about the same as for a gasket but you do need to be aware of the possibility otherwise I suppose a new gasket won't necesserily fix it.

I hate to say this but yours does sound much like mine. The pipe on mine was a 3 part bit and very complicated. The price is probably inflated by the fact that it passes through several hands, each one taking a percentage. Other than that your experience seems very similar. At least you didn't waste

I've opened this topic with the hope that it will help anyone who suffers total loss of function and has no previous experience. It is based on my own recent experience when both of my gals suffered air con failure within a couple of weeks of each other. First, if it suddenly stops, it is highly likely that the cause is loss of gas. In the later versions with full air con, the control panel flashes all 8s for a few seconds which may indicate other problems but it is probably loss of gas. On the simpler versions the pump solenoid should pull in with an audible click when switched on. Loss of gas will stop this happening. there are other causes but in all cases it is probably better to get the pressure checked before looking for other causes. I made the mistake of trying to do it cheaply by trying a Halfords (or other) top up can. My first mistake was to find the wrong point to try to put the gas in. There are 2. one has a lockking ring and is smaller than the other. This is the input point and gas should be put in until the pump solenoid starts to operate. Once this happens continue with the engine running and the air con set to max. If you have the early gal, this lug is behind the off side indicator. My opinion is that using these cans is a waste of time. Basically, even with a pressure gauge attatched, there is no way of telling when the right amount of gas is in because the pressure is pretty constant once you have some in and it will vary dramatically with varying temperature so even an expert can never be sure. Also, if the system is empty, you will need about

Clicking usually means low battery. Battery has enough to operate solenoid but when it pulls in the starter pulls the voltage down and the solenoid releases. The whole thing repeats - a bit like a primitive electric bell. There's been lots of good advice already but you should make sure the battery is fully charged. Probably best to take it off and put it back when you've dried everything out. Wait 'till the sun shines and leave the bonnet up. If youve used a pressure washer you could have got water into anyof the 'sealed ' electrics so youmay have to be patient with the drying process. Leaving the battery on while the electrics are wet could amd may have already wrecked something expensive. I hope things settle down but do strongly recommend taking the battery off and charging it immediately. If it has been fully discharged for more than a few hours it may already be next to useless. If you want to try another battery, best do it by replacement and if it doesn't start turning over, start worrying. It all depends on how much water and where you sprayed it.

The tale unwinds.... Two gals, both lost aircon after work on cambelt/water pumps. Both now diagnosed. Both problems due to leaking pipes low down near front sump area on output side of pump. Engineer said that it was a common sort of problem due to chafing and weather. On the 115 the parts are about

1. Ron 2.North Worcs 3. 98 Gal 110, 52 Gal Ghia 115 and 04 Picasso HDI 4. 2yr, 18 months and 3 yr 5. Not planning on losing these for a while. Run em into the ground is my philosophy. 6. Very little until recently but

Seatkid - Brilliant as usual! Thanks. Now all I've got to do is wait for it to stop raining and hope for the best.

Right - been to Halfords and they were very helpful and honest. They couldn't find the low pressure input valve on the '98 110 one so we gave up on that one. Can anyone out there offer help on this as I've consulted Haynes and that didn't help much. On the '52 Ghia, the gauge registered zero to start with but it only took a few seconds to rise to about 25 and then no more would go in. They gave up then, charged me

It is unfortunate that we can't vote twice. I voted early that both of mine were fine. Now, 6 months down the line, I've got two Gals without air con. Both are probably low on gas but it is a little odd that both have had new water pumps recently so I'm wondering if the garage knocked or bent something. Guess it's off to Halfords and hope for the best.. I've had a read through most of the posts on this topic and it does seem that a good many of those who originally voted no problem now want to change their vote. For what it's worth, I've had Fords now for most of the last 20 years (probably nearer 45 years really) and every one with air con has suffered total failure of that item which has been disproportionately expensive given that every household has at least one 'fridge and one freezer and these cost less than even a relatively simple air con repair and seem to work until the cabinet falls apart with the cooling system still OK. The other vehicles have been granada/scorpios and of German origin but my son has had a Mondeo for many years and the aircon in that has been totally reliable. The last repair I had done was by a refrigeration specialist who used a 'sniffer' to locate a leaking pipe. The pipe cost about

Oops! Got a decimal point wrong. :( Make that

I've been driving 40-60 k a year for most of my working life and it was a shock when I added it up. 750 k alone driving 4 Scorpios/Granadas into the ground. Arithmetic can be quite enlightening when you get it right but you do have to get the decimal points in the right place and use the right units. What really bothers me is how much I've contributed to the transport budget and how little I've got back. At todays prices I reckon on about

Seatkid, I'd love to hear what you have to say on this subject. I'm sure it would contain a lot more sense and fact than most of what has already been said. I reckon, if I really tried I could get up to the low fifties but spending 4 hours doing 10 miles in London does tend to screw up the averages somewhat. Nonetheless, you have my appreciation for showing the way. Gio, I agree about oil pressure but it does still bother my concience. As for the rest, I'll stake my 2 million miles in the past 45 years on being able to substantiate my opinions. I have to have something to occupy my mind driving up to 700 miles a day. ;) :P :) And, yes I do have 3 cars. Insurance for the old and decrepit is cheap and if you don't make a habit of breaking them they don't cost a lot to run. Also, you don't notice the depreciation until you sell them and I don't think I could face that. :D :lol: Ron.

Re the finite life issue on all tyres, I have always believed that this was mainly due to UV induced deterioration. Aboyt 25 years ago I had a neighboutr who worked for the research dept at Rootes (Anyone remember them?) and he had a caravan which had the same tyres on for about 15 years and thay looked like new. He claimed that this was due to giving the walls a wipe over with waxoyl once a year to block the UV. Personally, I reckon on 60K and a replacement every 18 months so it's not a problem for me but he may have had a point. As someone who never checks tyre pressures I have been taken aback to find that I have wasted a considerable amount of tyre wear on these Gals because the garages and tyre fitters don't seem to be aware that they need up to 46psi and settle for 32 all round as a good average. If you're having new tyres it might be a good idea to check what they've put in.

I think the facts are getting a little distorted by differences in the way different drivers interpret road conditions and how much power is actually needed to maintain speed. My reasoning is that energy not used to move the vehicle forwards is wasted. Most energy is wasted in a small vehicle by pushing air out of the way. In a larger vehicle the balance goes towards friction. Windage losses follow a square law whereas friction losses are more linear and can actually reduce slightly as speed increases. There are many situations on level or slightly downhill when all that is needed is a little power to maintain speed. Anyone who has been in a traffic queue will know that in first, second or even third gear can be used with engine tickover is enough to maintain a steady speed. Similarly, 6th gear at 40 requires little or no throttle to maintain speed. To use a lower gear simply means wasting energy pumping pistons up and down. The other waste of energy is unnecessary braking. This occurs as a result of reactive driving either by the driver or others behaving inconsiderately. It is interesting to experiment with cruise control on a motorway by setting it at 70 and trying to avoid changing speed by planning well ahead. I find it very relaxing and satisfying on very long runs but it's all a matter of taste. It is apparently accepted that an engine is most efficient at lower revs under maximum throttle but, while I can appreciate the logic of this, I am in no position to argue. I would never use full throttle in any gear at less than 2000 rpm because at lowers engine speeds the oil pressure can be lower and can be squeezed out from between the lubricated surfaces because the pressure is on for longer for each revolution. It is all a matter of feel and many drivers, my wife included, just feel more comfortable with a more lively feel that you get by driving in a lower gear. In all probability, each of us has good points and bad points and it all tends to balance out. If it ever becomes mandatory to drive at the optimum speed to minimise fuel usage I can imagine that we shall all be on full computer control and be passengers for most of the trip. I shall now sit back and wait for the flack.

I hope they're better informed than those wazzocks associated with the amusing but dangerous Clarkson in the Times Sunday supplement. They seem to be blind to anything that doesn't support or justify their own lifestyle or distorted vision of reality. ;) Actually, If I can find a copy I should like to read it. If they can better the manufacturer's figures it has to be good. I can't imagine why it doesn't apply to diesels. Does it involve fuel additive tricks or the like?

I have to come in and support Mum of 4 on this labouring thingy. I support her view entirely. As I've commented before, My experience covers about 2,000,000 miles and I often drive with the engine running at not much more than 1000rpm. I have to add that the older 110 BHP unit is happier at this than the newer 115 one. I've never blown an engine, never lost a clutch and I always get good MPG. It's just a question of being in the right gear at the right time. You can tell when the engine is labouring and an experienced driver can anticipate and avoid it. As far as fuel economy is concerned, I have to admit to being somewhat embarassed to find that I'd been running my newer Gal with low tyre pressures because I trusted the Ford mechs (Daft or what?) and the tyre fitters. When I restored the correct pressures the economy improved by 5MPG or possibly more. I always check my MPG full to empty and simply calculate Miles per litre. I work on 10 MPL = 45MPG and If Ican get that I'm happy. On the subject of best speed, I've found that about 55MPH returns about 55 MPG but a stady 70 gives a balance between staying awake and getting 1000 mile out of a tankfull (I wish)