Aux Heater ?

[SharanTDICarat]

Well I am no Ford mech but I am a heating engineer and on an oil fired atomising burner, white smoke can be an indication the burner is air rich. But I have no idea how the aux heater works so I could be barking up the wrong tree

[Guest tahirti3]

seem to have found a cure to aux heater problem.i pulled out the fuse and now no smoke or noise.can't tell if there is any difference in the drive of the car or if heater is taking longer to work but no warning lights or heater problems.hope i am not damaging anything else on the car.
just trying to avoid paying ford for something that their techys don't even seem to have a clue about.

[GSMGuy]

[quote name='tahirti3' date='Jan 21 2005, 09:31:54'] seem to have found a cure to aux heater problem.i pulled out the fuse and now no smoke or noise.can't tell if there is any difference in the drive of the car or if heater is taking longer to work but no warning lights or heater problems.hope i am not damaging anything else on the car.
just trying to avoid paying ford for something that their techys don't even seem to have a clue about. [/quote]
How can turning it off be a cure??

From what you posted, it appears to be working fine, all that will happen now is the engine will take longer to warm upo, with the associated extra wear this brings, and the cabin will take (a lot) longer to heat up also..

Mike

[rwtomkins]

I agree, GSMGuy, but to be fair to tahirti3 it did sound as though he was getting an excessive amount of smoke and this is a known fault. There's a technical services bulletin on this - please correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's 118/2000. If tahirti3 points this out to his dealer maybe he can get the problem cured a bit more effectively.

[GSMGuy]

Hmm, 118/200 refers to dense black smoke... I quote:

TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN No.118/2000
Car and Light/Medium Commercial 19.10.2000


Section: 412-02 (34)

Model: Galaxy with 1.9 TDI engine with booster heater or auxiliary heater, built from 27.06.1997 to 10.09.1999 (build code VR to XJ)

Markets: All

Subject: Dense black smoke coming from the exhaust pipe of the booster heater

Summary

Should a customer exprtess concern about black smoke coming from the booster heater. the probable cause may be:

1. Brief, light emission of smoke during start-up and after run of the booster heater (approx. 10-20s).

Cause: One off emission of black smoke resulting from the design of the booster heater. No further action required.

[b]2. Light emission of smoke at low ambient temperatures and high humidity.

Cause: If white smoke appears at the exhaust pipe when the vehicle engine is running, then water vapour is the cause. No further action required.[/b]

3. Thick, continuous emission of grey smoke.

Cause: Booster heater metering pump is faulty. Excessive deposits in the burner of the additional heater. Burner is over saturated with unburned fuel.

Remedy: Install a new booster heater metering pump and, if necessary, a new booster heater..

Ps I've highlighted No2 to show that the white smoke is considered to be caused by water vapour, and is a normal part of operation -as per my earlier post..

Mike

[Guest tahirti3]

you are right ,this is not a cure but i was getting a lot of smoke.also the car does not seem to take much longer to warm up.would this bulletin apply to my 2001 model tdi?
and does it mean the dealer should do more than just repair at the cost mentioned?

[Squishy]

I have a new Galaxy Ghia 2004 / 2005 and it must have a heater fitted under the rear Passenger seat as i get the continuos sound after the Engine is switched off.
One concerned, only had it a couple of weeks but when this blower / heater comes on its quite noisy from the inside of the car. Is this right?

Thanks

Steve

[GSMGuy]

Hi, are you sure you are not talking about the cabin auxilary heater, located in the n/s/r quarter panel, just to the side of the seat, as this is also quite noisy if the fan is on "3". The Booster heater is actually underneath the floor of the car, tucked up behind the Sill just in front of the n/s/r wheel... Read back in this thread if you aren't sure.. My Booster heater is quite noisy from outside the car (jet sound) but from inside, you can just about strain to hear it at idle, and you have to listen..

Mike

[Squishy]

Thanks. on mine I have the heating set to auto function, the noise I get is like when wind blows down a water pipe, it increases then levels out then dies, only notice it since its been cold. You can hear it inside and outside the vehicle.
Was just wondering if it is the same problem.

Thanks

Steve

[GSMGuy]

That'll be the booster heater then.. Don't worry, at least yours is working!! Wait 'till it gets rteally cold and starts smoking!

Mike

[Squishy]

lol thanks, I will get the garage to check the heater to see that its working ok, its only 2 weeks old so they can check it out under warranty. Still dont think it should be that noisy.

Thanks

Steve

[Jeff115]

I'm glad to see that this topic is still doing the rounds in various flavours as my bbooster oo action for 6m and I'm only investigating it now

Thanks for the effort and excellent info. GSMGuy, unfortunately the glow plug is not the culprit in my case.

So I'll try a couple of questions out for your assistance again:

Does anyone know where the air temperature sensor is located? I believe it should be at the front, behind the bulkhead/bumper area.

Can anyone confirm that the Galaxy Zetec booster heater i.e. non-climate control, is not controlled by the ECU? This would mean that ECU does not disable firing after 3 unsuccessful starting attempts. I'm told that the booster in mine is a more basic model - unfortunately this has not helped me to fix it

Regards,
Jeff.

[GSMGuy]

Jeff....


There are 2 external temperature sensors - the one for the Aux heater is clipped to one of the fixed arms on the wiper mechanism, roughly in line with the centre of the battery - you can get at it if you are nimble, and pull the clip and sensor away and out where you can get at it - I did this before I got my VAG-COM lead, in order to test it.. I did 2 tests - 1st, I connected a continuity tester to the sensor, and pushed it into a small tub of ice cream - sure enough after 30 sec or so the beeper went off, so that was working! I then bridged the plug with a wire, and started up the engine from cold and ran for 15 mins, this failed to start my heater, but I subsequently found that the plug was faulty..

The 2nd sensor is just behind the lower grille, just to the left of the NS fog light, if you are kneeling in front of the car. This one gives you the temp/ice warning and also the outside temp for the a/c, you can just reach up and detach it from behind..

The Booster IS controlled via the ECU, after 5 failed attempts to start it, it will log the fault and not try again until the fault is cleared.. I presume it's a safety thing.. Imagine the danger if it kept pumping in diesel without burning it.. It would come out of the exhaust and almost definately contaminate the rear tyres...... Dangerous!!!

Hope all this helps- if you are local to me (MERSEYSIDE) I am happy to run a diagnostic for you..

Mike

[Jeff115]

Excellent Mike,
I'll check the booster heater temp sensor at the week-end - this has to be the culprit.

But I'll probably need access to VAG-com to reset the ECU.

Unfortunately I'm on the other side of the pond, outside Dublin, and the Galaxy does not do water, yet

Thanks a lot for the offer of help,

Regards,
Jeff.

[GSMGuy]

Jeff, just for info, once you hook it up to VAG-COM, you can actually ee what temps the sensors are reporting, and also you can turn on the combustion blower and fuel pump to see if they work...

Glad to be of help!

Mike

[Guest MartinSurfer]

This extra little diesel powered heater/motor - aren't they called 'wabasto' heaters? I think passenger coaches have them for the same reason - heat the passenger compartment when it's cold and the engine won't produce enough heat, or at least, not for a long time. I've had both Alhambra and now a Galaxy (sucker for punishment!) and they both activated their wabasto's only when the air temp was down to 3 deg C (approx) or less. It didn't come on this morning and the temp was allegedly 6 deg C.

From new, the first time they come on they burn off the waxoil coating that was applied to the underneath of the car at the end of manufacturer. My wife was driving at the time and almost called the firebrigade there was so much smoke! And continued to smoke for some time after engine switch off.

Yep they sound like a mini jet engine.

[GSMGuy]

Hi Martin, and welcome to the forum...

The heaters are similar to the Webasto's but unless you have the timer in the headlining above the mirror, they only function when the engine is running. It should come on when the temp is below 10 degrees, so if yours doesn't, I'd suspect the sensor - it is a different one to the general temp sensor, which is located behind the lower grille -
The dedicated one for the heater is clipped to one of the fixed wiper arm tubes under the scuttle below the windscreen, on the same side of the battery... They look the same, but are not - the one for the heater is a simple make/break @10 degrees, the one behind the grille is a variable item...

HTH


Mike

[Guest ratherhaveanewone]

Diagnosed the problem as glow plug (many thanks to GSMGuy for the use of his VAG-COM rig and his expertise) replace and now works, warm as toast

Points to note,

1) Mine didn't need the fault code cleared, the fault code was logged 5 times but the thing started anyway, its a very early Mk2 if that makes a difference

2) Watch out for rust, I had to hack 3 of the 5mm torx screws off to the unit and replace, so if you suspect rust you'll need four 5mm x 25 screws to avoid a trip to B&Q half way through the job

3) First time I dropped the thing didn't jack the van up, second time I did its far easier just jack up and put a couple of bricks under the read tyre.

John

[GSMGuy]

John,

we cleared yours before we left - If it didn't try to start 5 times before you replaced the plug, then that's why it didn't need resetting..

Glad it's all sorted now though - Makes a big difference eh? - looks like I was lucky with the bolts on mine lol - Gave then a coat of coppaslip on reassembly - you never know!!

Cheers for the wine too, very nice bottle!

Mike

[Guest ratherhaveanewone]

A note on the temerature, my booster heater works but its below 5 degrees NOT 10 degrees, and even odder is the fact that my TIS (dodgy copy from e-Bay) also says its 5 not 10 - I suspect the very early mark II's may have a different temperature switch (if the thing is a simple make/break)

John

[Masked Marauder]

The switch is indeed a simple make-or-break affair. Well on the eariler models anyway, can't say for the older versions.

Anyone got a EPC?

[Guest ratherhaveanewone]

So if I buy a sensor for a later MkII, which seems to cut in at below 10 degrees (not 5), will that work, because if its 5.5 degrees outside at the moment I wait 15 minutes for the van to warm up

[GSMGuy]

John,

My switch definately operates @ 10 degrees, so in your case changing the switch should do the trick - It's bllody awkward to get at though!!

Mike

[Ivor]

[quote name='ratherhaveanewone' date='Feb 6 2005, 10:29:31'] Diagnosed the problem as glow plug (many thanks to GSMGuy for the use of his VAG-COM rig and his expertise) replace and now works, warm as toast

[/quote]
What were the symptoms that lead you to the conclusion it was the glowplug?

Mine are:-
1. Sometimes starts for 30 seconds then stops.
2. Sometimes starts and runs, but lots of grey smoke continuously.
3. Fluid is covering the small exhaust (Diesel?), seems to be coming out at the exhaust joint.
4. It's cold to the touch (the exhaust) (after 30 mins)

I hope it's not the metering pump, can the glowplug not working give these symptoms? Hope so, unburnt fuel?

It only started doing this last week after I picked it up from the dealer, they've been messing with my wiring to fix my brake lights/switch.

[GSMGuy]

Ivor - if it gets hot at all, then the glowplug must be working - you may have a blowe problem, or even a blocked air inlet, maybe causing the flame to go out, and the pump to run on a little, hence the Diesel - But it may also be the pump ovedosing it on fuel - smothering the flame??

Anyway Vag cxom wiill tell you if the glowplug is faulty, and you can manually turn on the blower and the pump to check them - I am sure I posted a TSB on grey smoke a few weeks back..

Mike