Intermittent Non Starting Issue

[Kevinb]

Hi everyone,

 

Strange one here and any feedback/pointers would be gratefully accepted!

 

I drove the car for roughly 35 miles this evening. When I tried to start the car a few minutes after turning it off, it clearly turned over but refused to start. This carried on for three attempts until I tried to bump start it. I wouldn't start this way and so on the off chance - and in desperation - I tried the ignition again. It worked fine.

 

I finished what I was doing, which didn't take long and came home. Once I got home, I tried the engine again and found it didn't start again a few times. I left it a few minutes and it started fine again.

 

According to my other half, this has happened about twice this year, but also happened yesterday and so it seems to be an issue that is now becoming more common.

 

Any ideas anyone?

Edited August 27, 2015 by Kevinb

[SilverBeast]

What year and engine is it?

MKi or MKII?

[xavier]

I've seen this problem in a post before - check the archives. Where are you, is it hot? If you're in Tuirkey and it's 41 deg C, it could be vapourisation in the fuel lines. If you're in Grimsby and it's pissing down with rain it's less likely.

[sparky Paul]

As SB says, what engine is it - is it a diesel or petrol?

 

Fairly common issue, but more info is required to give you the correct pointers.

[Kevinb]

Sorry, I really should make a signature...

 

It's a T reg 1.9TDi 

 

Late Mk.1

 

It was probably a bit warm after the 35 mile run as it's mainly dual carriageway where I was going (South England) and it wasn't heavy traffic. Sun was out but very late in the evening.

[chrispb123456]

Possibly a relay 109 fault, they suffer with poor solder joints.

[sparky Paul]

As Chris says, symptoms point to relay 109.

 

On your T reg, it will have the later style fusebox fitted and the relay will be on level 3. It's a bit of work to get to, you have to partially disassemble the fusebox to find it... there is a very useful post in the FAQ section which explains how to get to level 3.

 

http://www.fordgalaxy.org.uk/ford/index.php?/topic/8810-relay-30-replacement/&do=findComment&comment=68423

 

Although the pics show a mk.2 car interior, your fusebox will be the same.

 

Also, ignore references to relay 30, the one you are looking for is 109... it'll probably be uspide-down, so may read 601 ;)

[BrianH]

If your looking for replacements then when you get to it there should be a part number on there, search for it on GSF i found mine there. Ended up soldering mine as i wanted to know if it was the problem of the solder joints and its been fine ever since, so I've got the new one as a spare.

 

The drivers door led flashing is the usual indicator of this issue btw

[Kevinb]

Sparky Paul and Chrisp - many thanks for your help in this. Stupid questions time. What does the 109 relay do and how does it affect the starting of the car? I ask mainly because the issue is intermittent and certainly hasn't been prevalent. Certainly, my other half who uses the car mainly didn't even bother to mention it until the other night.... Presumably, the issue becomes increasingly common until the car simply doesn't start? It may be worth noting that my car does turn over, it turns over like crazy, but doesn't "ignite". Could this lead to another cause?

 

I'm assuming this is a "well-known personality" trait of the Galaxy that leads to this?

 

 

BrianH - What's GSF? I'm assuming a website? What did you solder in the relay to get it working? Was it easy to access (presumably) the internals?

 

Last question(!) Given these relays are known for failing, does it seem seem likely the relay has been replaced in the past on this car, given that it is a T Reg?

 

Many many thanks to everyone on this.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Kevinb

[Kevinb]

Just another thought, BrianH

 

Do you know what the usual LED code for this is?

 

Would the LED code flash is another code is already flashing? Our aircon has never worked (the famous high-pressure pipe has split and we don't need air-con that much!) and so the LED always flashes that code upon ignition.

[BrianH]

Sparky Paul and Chrisp - many thanks for your help in this. Stupid questions time. What does the 109 relay do and how does it affect the starting of the car? I ask mainly because the issue is intermittent and certainly hasn't been prevalent. Certainly, my other half who uses the car mainly didn't even bother to mention it until the other night.... Presumably, the issue becomes increasingly common until the car simply doesn't start? It may be worth noting that my car does turn over, it turns over like crazy, but doesn't "ignite". Could this lead to another cause?

 

I'm assuming this is a "well-known personality" trait of the Galaxy that leads to this?

 

 

BrianH - What's GSF? I'm assuming a website? What did you solder in the relay to get it working? Was it easy to access (presumably) the internals?

 

Last question(!) Given these relays are known for failing, does it seem seem likely the relay has been replaced in the past on this car, given that it is a T Reg?

 

Many many thanks to everyone on this.

 

Yes on the personality question - its a common problem, relay supplies the immobiliser so it stops it starting, doing exactly what you have found yours does usually (turns over, doesn't fire and it will work again later usually, but progressively get worse and more annoying!).

 

GSF would be GSF car parts - http://www.gsfcarparts.com/Probably has a branch near you somwhere.

 

I've had it fail twice in around 70k on the petrol, though the first replacement was a used relay. I'm using the soldered original one i replaced now and its been fine for months (brought the car with the fault originally, drove it back 130 miles without a problem then it occoured 2 days later!)

 

Maybe on the replacement question, but would it matter and the only way you might tell is pulling the relay out and seeing if its an original part, or a pattern (if its a pattern one then its clearly a replacement).

 

Once you have the relay out its a case of gently levering the casing off of it (the larger box comes off the base with the pins) and then you can access the joints. Theres info in the faq section somewhere (the same repair as on relay 30 for the petrol versions just your relay is 109 not 30)

 

If the led is flashing rapidly that should indicate the immobilser isnt being disarmed - without access to TIS (which i can't get mine to work properly now) i've no idea on codes, and it doesn't really matter in this case, if you want codes read its far easier and more reliable to use the diagnostic socket under the ashtray and VCDS in your case with a vag-com lead off ebay than trying to interpret the led in any depth.

[BrianH]

Oh - the what did i solder question would be the pins on the back of the circuit board, ideally you want to remove the existing solder (either some copper braid or solder sucker will do that) and run new onto it.

 

The relay is cheap enough that I'd consider having a spare onhand or at least checking you can obtain one quickly if its your only vehicle though if your going to try soldering it, unless your fairly confident in your soldering skills!

[Kevinb]

BrianH,

 

You're a star. Many thanks for the info. I suspect that my list of "things to do from the missus" has just gone up a bit...

 

And she has the audacity to complain that I want an XBox One! The things I do around the house (mutter mutter grumble grumble!)

 

I used to work for a large Telecoms/Electronics manufacturer which had the had the fortunate side effect of teaching me some pretty good soldering skills. I'm a bit rusty though! I may buy a spare just to be on the safe side. By the look of the GSF website, they don't sell the relay anymore. From what I can see, the part number for my Galaxy should be 357906381A Without me stripping the car down to get the actual part, does that seem right?

 

The funny thing is that I've seen a few guides on various forums detailing this replacement process, but none of them mention disconnecting the battery.....

Edited September 2, 2015 by Kevinb

[sparky Paul]

The LED in the door is for the anti-theft system status and should be solid when the ignition is switched on, then extinguish after a short while. If there is a fault here, which a faulty main power relay will affect, you will see a series of rapid flashes and the car will turn over and not start.

 

The relay supplies a number of systems on the car, including the fuel injection systems on the diesel, hence no go.

 

I had a problem with mine, resoldered and no problems since. The bad joints are sometimes very difficult indeed to spot, so as Brian says remove the old solder from ALL of the armature joints, that's the larger soldered joints on the PCB, and resolder - preferably with leaded solder. It's the lead-free solder which deteriorates, it's rubbish.

 

I think it was the joint on the very edge of the PCB which was the problem on mine, with the eyeglass I could see a hairline fracture in it.

[sparky Paul]

BTW You shouldn't need to disconnect the battery, so long as you don't do anything stupid.

[Kevinb]

Sparkypaul,

 

Cheers for the feedback. I'll have a look the relay. It doesn't seem toooooo difficult to get to on the mk1..... 

[BrianH]

On the part number side I found another number on the actual relay. I don't remember it having letters in it though. At worst you might have to remove the fusebox to identify it and then try it. As Paul has said the joints failure is only just visible so may not be immediately obvious. Will look like its crazed over the surface.

[BrianH]

And no access on mk1 isn't particularly difficult either. Just the 1 lower dash cover to remove and then the screws and clips holding the fusebox in place