Brake Servo

[BrianH]

Hi

 

Been having problems with a leak on the brake servo its from the seal on the back where the pedal operates the brake (you can hear it hissing when theres no pressure on the pedal). The problem is I can't seem to find the right servo anywhere as its an ATE master cylinder (recently replaced with issues finding the replacement at the time) without abs on a rhd galaxy with build date of 27.10.1997

 

Far as i can tell the ford part number is 1065177

 

Trouble is I can't find anyone listing the right servo - all the ones listed on ECP etc don't match my model (i can find lhd without abs, but not rhd, or rhd with abs).

 

The brakes do still receive servo assistance, but this seems to cause running issues so i'd like to fix it, but don't really want to have to replace the servo if i can avoid it. Does anyone know if the seal is available from somewhere else besides ford (as far as i can tell they don't do it as its not on the parts diagram) or is there another way to source it (is the vw one the same for example and if so is there a cross ref for the part number?)

 

Cheers

Brian

[insanitybeard]

Looking at the VW parts diagram for a '97 Sharan, there don't seem to be any additional seals on that diagram compared to the Ford parts diagram. Being that it's primarily VW build/components, I'd be surprised if the Ford servo was different to the one used by VW, does your old servo unit have a label with a VW type 7Mxxxxxxx reference on it? That may help identify it. 

[BrianH]

Cheers the parts diagram will help. Looks like i'll have to get the bulkhead panel out and try and see the number on the servo if its still there. I suspect as you say the servo is the same (I think the brakes seem to have been brought as complete systems like the wipers - I know mine are ATE from previous dealings with them!)

[insanitybeard]

Under the skin and away from the obvious styling differences between the Galaxy, Alhambra and Sharan  (and different engines and related items in some models) I think the majority of mechanical components are shared between the 3 models, allowing for differences in spec etc. Even the basic bodyshell is the same to my knowledge, the different looks mostly being due to different tailgates, wings, bonnets and front bumpers between the models!

[BrianH]

Well its not good news either way, both Ford and VW have the part listed as obsolete and unavailable. There isn't a sticker i can see either having removed the bulkhead panel. For reference its VW part number 7M2 612 105D. It also appears the LHD varients have a bigger 10" servo rather than the 8/9" one used on the RHD ones.

 

Think the only answer is going to be to remove it and try to source a replacement that way (or hope theres another number on it once its extracted that i currently cannot see!)

[chrispb123456]

VW numbers from Vagcat

 

 

 

7M1612105A       brake booster / F >> 7M-W-060 000
lhd /

(9) 7M1612105D

          brake servo with dual diaphragm / F 7M-W-020 919>> 7M-W-060 000*
9"/8" lhd /

(9) 7M1612105C

                              brake servo with dual diaphragm / for models with anti-lock brake system -abs- / for models with anti-lock brake system and electronic differential lock -abs/edl- / F 7M-X-000 001>>*
9"/8" lhd /

(9) 7M1612105D

                  brake servo with dual diaphragm / for models without anti-locking system / F 7M-X-000 001>>*
9"/8" lhd /

(9) 7M2612105A

      brake booster / F >> 7M-W-020 918
9"/8" rhd /

(9) 7M2612105D

          brake servo with dual diaphragm / F 7M-W-020 919>> 7M-W-060 000*
9"/8" rhd /

(9) 7M2612105C

                              brake servo with dual diaphragm / for models with anti-lock brake system -abs- / for models with anti-lock brake system and electronic differential lock -abs/edl- / F 7M-X-000 001>>*
9"/8" rhd /

(9) 7M2612105D

                  brake servo with dual diaphragm / for models without anti-locking system / F 7M-X-000 001>>*
9"/8" rhd /

[BrianH]

(9) 7M2612105D

                  brake servo with dual diaphragm / for models without anti-locking system / F 7M-X-000 001>>*
9"/8" rhd /

 

Thats the one i'm looking for, any ideas who/where may have it? (i've already tried quite a number of places online, There doesn't appear to be a pattern alternative either).

 

Matching up the master cylinder using vagcat (which i know is 7M0 611 019 B and is an oddball one anyway) allowed eliminating the majority of the options, leaving only 2 the one above and the very similar number 7M1 612 105 D (which i can find a new one of, but thats the LHD one!)

 

[chrispb123456]

Just putting the part number into your browser brings up a few in europe but your looking at about £270 + delivery

a breakers is going to be the cheapest.

Have you tried the online breakers like

Parts Gateway and 247 spares

 

http://www.partsgateway.co.uk/

 

http://www.247spares.co.uk/?gclid=CPq96J27gsQCFcXItAodkl8AYA

[BrianH]

Ironically thats not half the cost of ford (£532+VAT) If they could still get it.

 

I've tried breakers but not had any luck as yet, will try the two you've listed i think.

 

also most of the matches when you go though google don't lead anywhere despite looking promising at first - its only autopartmaster that seems to have anything.

 

 

Cheers

Brian

Edited February 27, 2015 by BrianH

[sasquartch]

It may be that yours is a rare type only fitted for a short time during the production run.

 

However I'd imagine it's very possible that you could use the entire brake servo and master cylinder assembly of another make - I'd think it extremely doubtful the mounting holes in the chassis and the pedal assembly would be different. Would think you'd be able to buy everything you'd need from a breaker.

 

With old cars sometimes you have to be a little inventive :)

[BrianH]

from the experience i had with the master cylinder when that failed (kept creeping down when the brakes applied) its a strange one exactly as you say, compounded futher by being only on the non-abs version (the mot tester who failed the brakes was surprised to find it didn't have abs so i don't think its common to not have it on these, maybe thats not the case).

 

I've had one reply back so far on one of the sites, giving it till monday to see if any further come back.

 

I had considered the same sort of thing with the servo but was trying to avoid doing so just yet. Mounting holes as you say look the same for where the servo is bolted to the chassis.

[seatkid]

Are you sure the hissing is not from a split vacuum feed pipe to the servo (bulkhead side)?  Very common and maybe the metal servo can is transmitting the noise inside.

[BrianH]

Yes i've already fixed that previously! Grease on the seal lip inside under the dash sorts it for a short time (it lasts around 1000 miles like that) or pressing slightly on the brake pedal stops it temporally.. I think a large section of the boot that should be on the back of the bit operated by the pedal has broken off previously and been removed as it doesn't look the same as the photos i've seen of others either.

[BrianH]

Just putting the part number into your browser brings up a few in europe but your looking at about £270 + delivery

a breakers is going to be the cheapest.

Have you tried the online breakers like

Parts Gateway and 247 spares

 

http://www.partsgateway.co.uk/

 

http://www.247spares.co.uk/?gclid=CPq96J27gsQCFcXItAodkl8AYA

 

 

One single match from partsgateway. Best hope its a) correct and b) works! Just waiting for it to turn up now.

 

Incidentally 247 spares seems very dodgy - just got an email today asking to call 0703 471 3179 to give further info. I can't find any indication of what that will cost, so not about to do that (more than enough info was in the initial enquiry anyway so suspect its some sort of premium rate scam).

[chrispb123456]

Have used both over the years but more so partsgateway.

Sometimes they do ring or message even though as you say they have all the info.

[BrianH]

Well thats drawn a blank, the one though partsgateway turns out is the wrong one. Looking like it will be a scrapyard trip i think to see if i can find a suitable alternative. Just annoying doing so as the master cylinder was replaced with a new one last september!

[chrispb123456]

That's a shame you must have a real oddball there, what is it that's different from yours to the one supplied.

[sparky Paul]

I'd be interested to know too. Looking at the drawings, the end of the ABS/non-ABS master cylinders into the servo looks the same, or very similar indeed.

 

If I found a similar s/h one that actually mated with your own master cylinder, I would be trying that and to hell with the numbers!

[BrianH]

Size of the master cylinder its definietly an oddball from replacing the master cylinder (its odd just with the way the outlets are compared to normal ones).

 

It looks an absolute pain to replace the servo hence i don't really want to do it twice either. I'm going to run down the scrapyards and see whats around i think.

 

The esp ones are definitely different (they have an electrical connector onto the servo) though those are only on the mk2 afaik.

[BrianH]

To illustrate the issue with the master cylinder look at the photo on this page - look at the outlets. Normally they are 4 with 2 either side of the reservoir, this one has two on one side and two underneath. Thats the one i've got!

[xavier]

I'm lookin but not seein. Maybe I've been struck blind!

[sparky Paul]

Can't see it either.

 

I know the 4 port non-ABS are a weird looking thing, but I thought your master cylinder was okay?

 

As for the electrical connectors on the later servos, I believe it's only a sensor and you can just ignore it. Just find something that fits!

[seatkid]

Why not just run some silicone sealant (non - vinegar type) around the leaking seal lip? Of course you will need up to 48 hours for it to cure completely.

[BrianH]

Its on the back where it moves so would that work? (the seal is the one around the piston in the back of the cylinder) Can just not use the Galaxy for a couple of days so leaving it for 48 hours not a major problem.

 

My master cylinder is ok (now) as its been replaced as it failed the last mot for pedal creeping down once brakes on. But its a different size (diamater) as far as i can tell so i'm not sure the standard servo (used upto late 97) will actually fit it - hence the scrapyard trip to see what i can find as soon as i get the chance.

 

The earlier type has two ports on each side of the reservoir (you can see them from the top of the cylinder). Mine has two on the left hand side, and two at the bottom (without a picture of the cylinder to hand its difficult to see it, will take some if i can get back in there soon).

 

I might just try the silicon if you think it will work, but i suspect since the bit moves it won't work (unless theres a way of sealing round the piston without sticking to it and just sitting ontop of the seal?). Ill take a few photos to show the leak if i can get chance (the ideal thing i'd like to do is try replacing the seal as it would be a lot easier, but thats proving impossible to source).

 

The reason i'm trying to sort this (mainly) is that its causing the engine to misfire as its allowing excess air though into the engine.....

[sparky Paul]

hence the scrapyard trip to see what i can find as soon as i get the chance.

 

That could be the best hope, it's certainly worth a try. Looking at the various master cylinders, there are certainly some non-ABS/ABS types that look interchangeable.

 

The only other option is to try to obtain a seal from somewhere other than the dealer, it may be possible to obtain the seal from a brake parts supplier, or maybe a recon specialist. It may even be possible to obtain a replacement from a general bearing & transmission parts supplier, but you will need exact measurements of the seal, or a sample to match, i.e the old seal. The shaft seal usually some type of lipseal, and some are fitted with generic sizes.

 

Failing that, though maybe not the most satisfactory answer, it may be possible to remove a good seal from a scrap servo unit, to fix yours. I would have thought that the input shafts on the servos would be fairly similar across the various Galaxy servos.

Edited March 5, 2015 by sparky Paul