Adding 2 Stroke Oil To Diesel

[JohnPic]

Hi All

Does anyone add 2 stroke to their diesel and any thoughts on doing so with a PD engine: 130 bhp 1.8tdi.

 

The idea is that modern diesel has poor lubrication properties since it is so low in sulphur. 

 

I found adding 2 stroke to diesel in my T4 left it quieter, perhaps smoother.  Any thoughts from anyone.

[bigdave982]

Dunno but ill be watching this thread ,intersting idea

[seatkid]

Old chesnut rears its head again.

 

All diesel sold throughout Europe must comply with EN590. There should be no lubricity issues with all TDi/PD engines using EN590 compliant fuel.

 

The smoother/quieter running is due to a higher cetane rating. Additives can raise the cetane rating by up to 2 numbers.

 

2 stroke oil is designed for 2 stroke petrol engines as a lubricant for cylinder walls, not for 4 stroke diesels. Diesels use direct injection so the oil would never make it to the cylinder wall before its burnt off. The 2 classes of engines work on entirely different principles. Although there may be benefits (e.g. higher centane), theres no clear or scientific evidence of benefits and its not approved to use with 4 stroke diesels by anyone - in fact VAG state "do not use fuel additives of any kind" so why risk it?

 

Why not use a more conventional additive which at least is approved by the manufacturer of the product? I personally use and  recommend Millers ECOPower products, mainly for their detergent and cetane boosting properties. Of course, ignore the "economy" claims of any additives, any economy gain will solely be due to cleaning of injector nozzles and restoring good spray patterns.

[JohnPic]

Hi Seatkid

Thanks for your comments especially on cetane.  But your trust in the standards being in our interests as owners of diesel motors is something I do not share.

Yes i know diesel complies with the standard.  That is precisely why 2 stroke oil could be helpful.  The standard removes sulphur which gave diesel its essential lubrication.   I had contact with people selling on the reconditioned engines from VW testing ten years or so ago.  They had large numbers of failures attributed to the changes in diesel fuel.  It goosed the test engines.  So yes of course diesel complies with the standard.  The standard is set to meet emission controls not to meet the needs of diesel engines.  Modern diesel is a compromise.

My question is: does the addition of two stroke oil to diesel change the compromise sufficiently for my benefit for my motor in the longer term?

Please don't try the "they have it all planned out for the best".  The compromises in diesel design and emission control are significantly inefficient.  I had a Citroen AX ie indirect injection very old technology which regularly gave 65 mpg.  An early 1.9 di Fabia which normally gives 65 to the gallon.  The modern ones cannot match that even though they have 13 years of "improved" technology.    A Ford Focus diesel barely does much over 50mpg; achieved by the first relatively poor Escort diesels when they first came out.  That must be 30 years ago.

The rumour is that "a large German auto Co." tested additives demonstrating no advantage.  BUT came out quietly with the view that 2 stroke was useful.  Broadcasting that result would be politically unacceptable: to government, fuel companies, the environmental lobby and shock the private motorist.  As well as opening a can of worms about all the current changes.  Much better not to rock the boat. 

But I am quite happy to rock my boat.  Does 2 stroke help?

Again: does the addition of 2 stroke change the compromise which is modern diesel in my favour, helping preserve my engine and components for the next 100,000 miles.

And after deciding on 2 stroke comes thoughts on egr and cleaning the inlet manifold and removing the cat when the exhaust needs done.

[gregers]

isnt the idea of adding 2 stroke to the fuel an idea that was used in colder climes?

surely adding to modern engines now could compromise the running of the engine,especially with all the ecu's keeping a check on emissions etc would they end up throwing a few tantrums??

[seatkid]

 

Yes i know diesel complies with the standard.  That is precisely why 2 stroke oil could be helpful.  The standard removes sulphur which gave diesel its essential lubrication.   I had contact with people selling on the reconditioned engines from VW testing ten years or so ago.  They had large numbers of failures attributed to the changes in diesel fuel.  It goosed the test engines.  So yes of course diesel complies with the standard.  The standard is set to meet emission controls not to meet the needs of diesel engines.  Modern diesel is a compromise.

 

All diesel sold since 1993 is EN590 compliant, when Euro 1 became mandatory with low sulphur levels starting then, getting progressively lower in 1996 etc with newer Euro standards. The minimum lubricity of fuel has been maintained by additives in the refineries. Only engines built significantly earlier than 1993 would have any issue with lubricity mainly with their (rotary) fuel pumps.

 

Adding 2 stroke will probably increase lubricity so might be kinder to your PD injectors, not that they have any problem with neat fuel. However, 2 stroke oil is not designed to operate under the extreme pressure seen in diesel injectors, so who knows? It may breakdown under 2000 bar and clog them up - especially the cheaper mineral oil types.

 

2 stroke oil does not contain detergents so no cleaning benefits.

 

Most 2 stroke oils are dyed red which will take a lot of explaining to VOSA if you ever get stopped for a random test. They can detect a ridiculously small level of dye......

 

Most quality (synthetic) 2 stroke oil is expensive - just as expensive or more than Millers or other "proper" additives - so why bother? Proper additives are specifically formulated to give cleaning, lubricity and cetane enhancement.

 

How about another random addive - acetone?? - no hard evidence it does anything, but has an enthustiastic band of supporters despite the fact that acetone dissolves many plastics/seals etc.

 

The biggest single thing to keep your engine going for ever are regular oil changes (at least at Manufacturers recommendation, preferably more frequently) using quality synthetic oil of the correct specification (VW 505.01 or better still VW 507), and quality filters (genuine or OE like Mann-Hummel). Whether the rest of the car will last another 100,000 miles is another matter.

[JohnPic]

Thanks for your thoughts.  It is the issues around the pressure in the injectors and break up of the oil that concerned me.  Seems no one has taken the risk - or wants to talk about it.  So I wont be doing it either!

[mumof4]

Makes the engine quieter.Other than that, no other noticeable difference since i drive like a loon anyway.. Tried it in my 115 52 plate galaxy ( diesel PD engine)

 

Shes done just over 225k miles and the engine is as sweet as a nut.

[JohnPic]

Thanks mumof4.  Do you still use 2 stroke oil and if so for how long?  Do you use basic £5 a litre stuff or fancy oils?

[victor meldrew]

I used 2 stroke as an additive in my old di transit and found it ran quieter and smoother

I used it cos it was free at the time

Not used it in any shalaxys though( I'd have to buy it now)

[mumof4]

Thanks mumof4.  Do you still use 2 stroke oil and if so for how long?  Do you use basic £5 a litre stuff or fancy oils?

 

I just put some in each time i top up the car. Certainly does in my gals case make it quieter and yes i guess smoother. I just used basic 5 quid stuff because im a tight arse.

 

I read about it on another forum so thought id give it a whirl.. Done it for a few months now.

[seatkid]

Hey! Welcome back Mumof4! Long time no hear.

 

Hows life treating you lately - hope its all good.

[mumof4]

Hey! Welcome back Mumof4! Long time no hear.

 

Hows life treating you lately - hope its all good.

Blimey SK, your still alive!!

 

Nice to see your avatar never changes ;)

[gregers]

Blimey SK, your still alive!!

 

Nice to see your avatar never changes ;)

well its better then the pic you sent him of yourself. :lol:

Edited August 19, 2013 by gregers

[mumof4]

well its better then the pic you sent him of yourself. :lol:

Meeeooowwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Now ssshhhh.... stop going off topic you norty norty boy!!

[chrispb123456]

Now where did I put those photo's of M just to jog the old memory :25:

[mumof4]

Now where did I put those photo's of M just to jog the old memory :25:

you mean.... you didnt shred them!!!!! :5:

[chrispb123456]

A thing of beauty is a joy forever :P

[gregers]

A thing of beauty is a joy forever :P

 

 

 

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vomit smiley.htm

Edited August 20, 2013 by gregers