Mk1 Tdi Galaxy Will Not Start !

[metaljim]

Changed back the relay seatkid and new battery still no go, putting it down to timing as the marks are not lining up, what a pig it is trying to find them timing marks through the hole in the bell housing, next time if i get another Galaxy, hopfuly the cam belt has just been changed lol,

[BigDog]

Did you see this thread?

http://www.fordgalaxy.org.uk/ford/index.php?/topic/25234-galaxy-19tdi-wont-start/?hl=bigdog&do=findComment&comment=177540

All the best,

 

Matt

Edited March 28, 2013 by BigDog

[metaljim]

Hi Matt,  thanks for the info,thats the next thing i must check,as we are having fun at the moment where we are getting the belt on all lined up, and then when we tension the belt up it goes out of line again..will have to get that crank sprocket off and have a look.

[metaljim]

Thanks everybody for your help, i am now back on the road again, my trouble has been the tensioner, since i brought it off ebay new and fitted it, you could never get it to tension up right,  the marks would not line up, even my mate had ago but could not make sence of it, so in the end we just turned it to what we thought was tensioned enough, twice i have strip the car down and done it that way, stripping it down this time and still trying to work out why it would not tension up, i thought i would put the old one back on and give that one ago, when i went to take new one off,i undone the nut of the tensioner and went to pull it away and a piece of the back plate of the tensioner fell on the deck, put the old one back on and it tension up with no trouble.  the old one looks ok just hope it holds out........ that is what caused most of my trouble where the belt has jumped a tooth or two lol...

Edited March 31, 2013 by metaljim

[BrianH]

Just realised someone else said what i was about to post...

Edited March 31, 2013 by BrianH

[seatkid]

Another great advert for Fleabay. :19:

 

How much did that cheap crap really cost you? And be thankful it only slipped one or two notches - anymore and it would be byebye engine.

 

Sue the supplier for selling substandard parts (probably chinese copies)

 

[metaljim]

Guess what ....  i believe the belt has jumped again lol, for a couple of days there it would start at the flip of the key first thing in the morning, now gone back where its taking a few turns to get it going, and back to the white smoke again, thats happend a few times now, where i have found the timing has gone out, so back of with the mountings and covers etc and this time which i should have done before, check that bottom bloody crank cog, where it has been so cold out there working on the car, and rushing to get back indoors lol, i should of checked that cog the last time.

Will not blame fleabay yet seatkid for the tensioner, looked in my purchase history and cannot find it there, the only other place i might have brought it from is eurocarparts but yet to find the invoice.

As i am writting this my mate has just come along and reccons its more to do with the glow plugs, as when i get it started after a couple of turns and let it run for a few minutes, and go and turn it off and back on again its starts perfect, and the way it ticks over and i told him it runs fine on a run, he said it would not run like that if the timing was out, think about it now i dont surpose it would, did look at plugs not long ago and did notice sometimes that when you turn the key on they would glow and then turn the key off and back on again nothing, do they work like that or should they glow every turn of the key.......

[BrianH]

I've known a diesel engine run (albeit very badly) with the timing on the pump out by 180 degrees. Smoked like anything and little power but it did keep running.

 

Glowplugs do vary how long they stay switched on for depending on temperature so I wouldn't think anything too much of the difference in time on starting attempts.

 

Unfortunately the possibly substandard parts are available from anywhere - some of the pattern parts are fine, others may not be and the only way you find this is by trying them.

[seatkid]

It's highly likely that its a timing issue but IMO It is very difficult for a belt to "jump" over notches, even with a sloppy tensioner....

 

Its starting to sound as if you have the classic worn bottom timing pulley or sheared woodruff key (dependent on year I think) - its a known issue with Mk1 TDi's, the bottom pulley keeps slipping a bit on the crank and puts the timing out. Needs to come off and be replaced with a new pulley/key.

 

A forum search will reveal more.

[metaljim]

Hi Brian, thanks for getting back, yea when started it drives well and you can get plenty of speed out of it and ticks over nice, will just have to check and see if i have a dodgy busbar or a short somewhere...this is the first diesel i have ever owned and worked on in my forty years of driving, have learnt a bit about them in the year i have owned it.  Five minute job now if i have to change the timming belt lol....

[metaljim]

Hi Seatkid, was getting back to Brian when you posted, i think i will do what you say and have a look at the bottom cog and get that sorted first, like i said to Brian five minute job lol.

[metaljim]

Weather permiting will get that cog of tomorrow, then just hope mine has got the woodruff key, but if i have to get a new crank cog, would it be best to go to VW instead of Fords, or can you get them from a motor factors ?

just to say it has got to be that cog, because every time i time it back up, it will always start with flip of the key.

Edited April 6, 2013 by metaljim

[metaljim]

Can it still be timing as i have done 3 hundred miles and checked all the marks i have made previous and they all line up still - crank - camsharft - diesel pump, did not check flywheel end this time.

 

When warm you can turn the key on and off and will start all the time with no problems, just been out to try and start it now  10pm  just a couple of turns no joy, but did notice that as soon as i turned the key, that the glow plug light only stayed on a split second each time, but when i was out there in the afternoon, the glow plug light stayed on a few seconds longer and with a test light put into one of the connection on the busbar once the glow plug light goes out, the power at the busbar stays on for much longer there than the light on the dash does, is that normal.. hope you can make sence of that lol

[seatkid]

Can it still be timing as i have done 3 hundred miles and checked all the marks i have made previous and they all line up still - crank - camsharft - diesel pump, did not check flywheel end this time.

Yes, the belt has not slipped/jumped and thats confirmed by crank - camshaft - diesel pump lining up, but the crank pulley will probably have slipped on the crank, so you need to check at the flywheel.

 

did notice that as soon as i turned the key, that the glow plug light only stayed on a split second each time, but when i was out there in the afternoon, the glow plug light stayed on a few seconds longer and with a test light put into one of the connection on the busbar once the glow plug light goes out, the power at the busbar stays on for much longer there than the light on the dash does, is that normal.

 

Yes its normal, the glowplug power actually stays on longer than the light, the light just indicates you should hold off starting until the light goes out and power stays on until the engine has had a chance to warm the cylinder walls/piston crowns a little. First cold start with stone cold engine will give longer light time than a restart up to 3 or more hours later because the (water) temperature of the engine is still quite high compared to a completely cold block. You only start to see longer glow plug light times when the engine (water) temperature drops really low (I would guess below about 8 deg C)

[metaljim]

Again thanks for the imfo seatkid, i have thought you might have told me to piss off by now lol, thats it now if i can get it started i am of up the the road and get myself the woodruff key if its got one, or will have to walk up if its the cog.

[metaljim]

O well new cog for me as the other one is F D

[metaljim]

Just to say thanks to everybody who got back to us, looks like it might be back to happy motoring again lol.

 

most of my trouble being that cranksharft timing cog, highly recommend checking that if you are having the same issue that i been having, i believe (seatkid) told me to check that a while back.

 

Got my cog from eurocarparts £28    The flat edge on my cog was half missing.       !!Great site catch you again!!

[seatkid]

Glad you got it sorted. Actually BigDog should take the credit for pointing out the cog suspect.

 

Its happened so many times now that maybe calls for an entry in the Tech Faq under "Difficult Starting a Mk1 Tdi? it could be the timing pulley..." or something.....

 

Wish I had the balls to be able to change the timing belt...metaljim must some kind of expert by now!!!

Edited April 8, 2013 by seatkid

[metaljim]

Guess what, back to non starting first thing in the morning, today did not want to use it but got the easy-start out and it started strait away, i have noticed today that after a good hour parked up, it took quite a few turns to get it started without the easy-start, the car started perfect for three days after changing the timing cog, after that you could notice that every morning it was taking longer to get started, and today it did not want to know,  its like firing all the time but just wont pick up, so i thought i would take the air fillter out and see if that would make any differance, it just turned over and over and nothing else, just as if there was no diesel getting through, but as before once started it drives perfect, no pulling back and plenty of go in her lol

 

can anybody tell me about the lead which plugs onto the maf sensor, on mine there is another lead that comes off it with a plug on it, does it go anywhere, as i cannot find a place for it..

 

I can see a Galaxy going up for sale soon lol.

[BrianH]

Theres usually a temperature sensor in the intake which would normally be in the same area, not sure if the diesel has it or not though. If its something like that i'd expect vcds to be reporting a sensor error though? how many pins in the connector?

[seatkid]

can anybody tell me about the lead which plugs onto the maf sensor, on mine there is another lead that comes off it with a plug on it, does it go anywhere, as i cannot find a place for it..

 

Yes there is a connector in the MAF loom that goes nowhere - its the same on all Mk1's - nobody really knows what its for. Theres a clip nearby on the strut housing that it sits in, but it doesnt connect to anything...

 

Regarding the difficult starting......check your timing hasnt drifted out again, maybe something wasnt tightened up properly.

Edited April 14, 2013 by seatkid

[metaljim]

Thanks to the members getting back again, just to say i had a look at the timing for the 99th time lol, and its out again just cannot work this one out as everything was all tightened up, this is the same trouble i have been having for some time now, you time it back up and after a couple of days it goes out and thats doing well over hundred miles each time, is it just me or has anyone else has had the same trouble.

 

Belt on and off a couple of times today as it did not time up the first time and back together, well under 3 hours, i have had some motors in my time and this one beats the lot lol,

 

Will let you all know how i get on this time...

[seatkid]

Check the camshaft timing pulley bolt is tightened correctly ( you'll have to lock the camshaft/pulley) I've seen a figure of 35lb/ft with some sites recommending 40lb/ft to stop it slipping round. Make sure the taper is clean and oil/grease free.

Edited April 15, 2013 by seatkid

[chrispb123456]

Thanks to the members getting back again, just to say i had a look at the timing for the 99th time lol, and its out again just cannot work this one out as everything was all tightened up, this is the same trouble i have been having for some time now, you time it back up and after a couple of days it goes out and thats doing well over hundred miles each time, is it just me or has anyone else has had the same trouble.

 

Belt on and off a couple of times today as it did not time up the first time and back together, well under 3 hours, i have had some motors in my time and this one beats the lot lol,

 

Will let you all know how i get on this time...

Would say it's got to be virtually impossible for the timing to go out if all keyway are in place and sprockets tight, in what way is the marks not aligned, crank to cam or crank to pump.

Are you sure the camshaft sprocket is tight? there is no keyway on the camshaft, the taper is what locks the sprocket to the cam providing the bolt is tight (45 Newton metres)

[seatkid]

Double post - sorry

Edited April 15, 2013 by seatkid