Galaxy 1.9Tdi Won't Start

[Shabazmo]

This one has me a bit baffled.

The car was running fine but this morning it started for about 20 seconds and then died. When I try to start it again, it fires a bit, then nothing.  I think its the fuel pump because I have checked to following:

 

I have taken out the shut off solenoid and applying 12v to it, the plunger lifts.
I have taken the return pipes off and when cranking there is only a tiny amout of fuel returning back from the pump.  The plastic see through pipe is full of fuel.

There is no fault code on vagcom
There are no warning lights on the dash and all come on as expected when the ignition is on.
The door led flashed once when the ignition is turned on.
The battery is fully charged and spins the engine over well.  I keep charging it all day.
The 109 relay is checked and I get 12v out when energising it
The needle lift sensor reads the correct resistance
The coolant and fuel temp sensors read 9C.  The car is in my garage
The crank sensor reads the correct resistance
I have checked a lot of wiring around the car and all appears ok
I have cleaned te main ECU earth point

 

Does anyone know how best to check the fuel pump, or suggest any other checks I should make.

Thanks

[seatkid]

Check you have fuel in the tank and that iot is diesel and not petrol.....

[a18nkd]

i would do as seat kid says check the fuel as i've had some fuel from morrisons and it ran like a bag of spanners luckily i only put £10 in so i drained the fuel out and empy'd the diesel filter and found there to be a lot of water in the old fuel so i put new fuel in took a few turns of the engine and all has been ok since now i steer clear of morrisons fuel as for checking the fuel pump the only thing i can suggest is to crack off the injectors one by one and see if the fuel is getting throu ok.

[Shabazmo]

Thanks for the replies. The tank is half full, so we have used half a tank, so I doubt the fuel is a problem.

Given that there is very little fuel being returned to the tank, I think the presure is lacking and am thinking of a fuel filter blockage, but then if that was the case why do I have the clear tube full of fuel.

[seatkid]

 I think the presure is lacking and am thinking of a fuel filter blockage, but then if that was the case why do I have the clear tube full of fuel.

 

Because if you have no air leaks (and there should be none) then the pump may be pulling against a blocked filter - think of it as a tap turned off at the end of the pipe.

 

Change the filter

 

You could also try removing the clear fuel feed pipe from the filter and feeding clean diesel direct and she if she starts.

[Shabazmo]

Seatkid,  just what I was thinking.  I had a new fuel filter ready for the 220k mile service and changes the filter having first filled it with clean diesel. Eh no luck!  Now that the car is in the garage I did notice white smoke from the exhaust (unburnt diesel), but not sure if this means that the fuel pressure ir right.  I have to assusme so.

 

Although the needle valve reads the correct resistance I would like to know what feed it requires to activate it.  Anyone know?

[a18nkd]

how did you get on????

[Shabazmo]

Latest is that I now have the car apart in order to check the static positions of the crankshaft, camshaft and fuel pump, just in case the fuel pump timing was out. I have now finsished for the evening and the all settings appear correct. Now I am stuck.  Could it be a faulty fuel pump and how can I test this.  I just don't like giving up so any suggestions welcome.

[Shabazmo]

AAAHH!  I have just found that the TDC mark on the fly wheel was not where I thought when I did the timing belt change 18K miles ago. I now need to reset the camshaft and fuel pump.  So although the fuel pump and the camshaft were aligned, the crankshaft was out.  How I managed to do 18K miles, i don't know.  Now this may not fix it, but at least I have found a fault.  I will update on Saturday.

[BigDog]

Mmm, that's odd. Can I recommend you check the crankshaft sprocket hasn't been moving very slightly on the end of the crankshaft, wearing the keyway and it's suddenly got bigger to the extent it won't run? A colleague of mine had this trouble with his Mk III Golf tdi, the engines are probably reasonably close relatives. Even very slight play will seriously mess up the timing and of course lead to the difference between the flywheel timing mark and the camshaft + fuel pump.

[Shabazmo]

Thanks Bigdog, I will check but I have been turning the engine via the crankshaft aprocket both ways so would have noticed any play.

[BigDog]

My colleague's sprocket wasn't loose but did move from one end of the wear range to the other when "ragging it" through the gears, whereupon the timing shifted, misfiring began and power was lost. I think the way it is bolted on disguised the wear, only when his mechanic took the sprocket off did he see the wear, (this was the third mechanic and after a new fuel pump and lots of expense). good luck.Matt

[Shabazmo]

Problem Fixed.  So here is the final story.

 

Despite changing the cambelt 18,000 miles ago, I must have been unusually slack in doing this job. I found that the TDC, camshaft and fuel pump were out, but the car decided only last week to complain by way of not starting. So what did I do wrong. The only thing I locked 18000 miles ago was the camshaft and the fuel pump, but I did not lock the crankshaft.  This was because the crankshaft on the AFN engine is locked by a special tool on the ring gear on the flywheel. When the belt is tensioned, the crankshaft, if not locked, will move, hence the reason why the timing gets out. On this occasion, I stuch a pry bar on the ring gear and locked the flywheel before putting the belt on the pulleys and tensioning the belt.

 

The moral of the story is forget tipex, buy the right tools, follow the instructions and get it right first time.

 

Thank you to all those who help me think clearly

[chrispb123456]

There's no problem using tipex or white paint as long as the markings are accurate and the belt correctly tensioned.

Recheck alignment after turning crank two revolutions, even when using locking tools this is standard procedure.

[Shabazmo]

Damm.  After a week of sweet driving the starting problem re-occurred.  Now after hours of checking everything I managed to get it starting rough. 

I noticed excess white smoke from the exhaust. I thought about compression test but my tester did not have the right size glow plug adapter. So I decided to use VCDS again and checked the injection timing. On basic setting 04, the second reading reads 0 instead of about 56. The temperature reading 9th column  was 90 or so.

So what does this tell me. Pumpelectronics gone? wiring back to the ecu? I will need to look up the pump test procedure.

http://www.fgoc.co.uk/forum/Themes/Blue/images/icons/modify_inline.gif

[Shabazmo]

I had a quick look at Elsawin and there is a special test box which I don't have, to test the wiring loom . I did however did some checking on the pump loom connector plug.  On the pump side terminal 9 and 10 read 16ohms and is within spec.  I also checked the engine side of the plug.  Terminals 5 and 10 had a resistance of 1.7 ohms, but I am not sure if this is a short or as it should be.

Terminal 4 is ground.  Again not sure if this is correct.

 

Any help would be appreciated. 

[seatkid]

IIRC your engine is suscepticle to the toothed crankshaft pulley moving relative to the crankshaft. I think its to do with the woodruff key shearing and means the timing shifts. Do a search to get further details...

[Shabazmo]

Thanks Seatkid. It seems like yet another stripdown to come.  I will try checking the crankshaft sensor one more time this evening before I begin.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Shabazmo

[Shabazmo]

Seatkid and Bigdog,  You are probably right. I rechecked the timing and the camshaft is out.  So it must be a worn woodruff key.  I tried to use my pulley holding tool to hold the sprocket but it interferes with the socket on the sprocket bolt.  Does anyone have any ideas on to loosen the 19mm sprocket bolt.

[Shabazmo]

Update so far.  I have taken off the sprocket only to find that teh sprocket does not have a woodruff key.  It is held onto the crankshaft by a flat part which stops it rotating. The flat part was distorted and hence play in the sprocket, So its a new sprocket which I will have to get for Saturday.  I am now trying to get the seal out but with difficulty. Any ideas?

[Shabazmo]

Crank seal sorted.  Here is the sprocket.

 

 

 

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19559

Edited February 21, 2013 by Shabazmo

[snowytop]

You've really put some work into sorting this problem, I hope the pulley sorts it, as you deserve to get the win.  

 

Good Luck.

 

Oh by the way, the picture wouldn't open for me, do I need to be a member of their forum do you know?  Thanks.

[Shabazmo]

Finally purchased a sprocket from GSF this afternoon and fitted it.  Drove the car for abour 10 miles and all seems fine. Spent about 40 hours on the job of which 30 hours was trying to find the problem. I spend £22 for the sprocket £3 for the bolt. A ridiculous £20 for the crank seal and my fantastic Ford service centre in Odiham gave me a couple of tools on loan. The seal fitting tool and the sprocket holding tool.

 

I am absolutely satisfied that i did not buy a thing that I did not need, but should have spent time more time thinking about the sproket that others in this forum mentioned.

 

Lets hope that soemone can get the benefit if my experience.