Limp Mode - Faulty Turbo?

[skypilot]

First of all, please forgive my laymans terms as I am not very mechanically literate!

 

I have a 2001 1.9TDI Zetec 110(?)HP Galaxy MkII - in silver just to make the details complete :)

 

About 18 months ago, I was driving along the motorway at around 70mph and needed to overtake a vehicle so I slowly accelerated. I then felt a definite "wall" and the car would not accelerate further - as if a limiter had cut in.

 

I "limped" along to my destination (an army barracks in Licolnshire) and parked the car up for 6 months whilst I went to play in the sand as the on-base MT section would not even look at it as it is not an MoD vehicle. Various folk advised me that the head gasket had gone so prior to coming home a local garage agreed to collect the car and do whatever was necessary. They said it was not the head gasket but the MAF. They had replaced it but said the vehicle needed a software reset by Ford to make the problem go away. I limped the car home and took it to a Ford dealer who said it was the turbo - the waste gate was seized.

 

Not willing to accept their kindly £1200 quote to replace said turbo, I went to a more accomodating chap who took off the turbo and said it was all moving freely with no obvious faults. He replaced the temp sensor as that was one of the faults shown on the diagnostics and he also replaced 4 fuel valves/controllers of some sort (forgive my ignorance) that he said could also be an issue. None of these made any difference and I am now the best part of £1500 lighter from the various garages and their efforts and the problem remains.

 

On the rare occasion that I have attempted to pass another vehicle (obviously there is very little engine acceleration), a couple of times the engine has cut completely and defaulted to engine idle revs only, like an over=speed limiter has cut in, which has been a bit embarrassing. If I switch the engine off and restart, that particular problem goes away but I am permanently in "limp mode" - the car I mean, not me!!!!

 

I have looked through the forum and the FAQ but to be honest I am a bit bewildered by where to go next. My questions are thus:

 

1. Does driving in "Limp Mode" cause long term damage or is it merely an inconvenience? (It is permanent, not intermittent).

2. Any other easy fix suggestions to try such as a simple "replace fuse XX"?

3. Is it likely that spraying the "10X" cleaner is going to make a difference?

4. Any advice whatsoever (other than buy a new vehicle)?

 

I love the Galaxy and would only ever replace it with another one but I just need to get this one fixed properly as I am convinced it must be something straight forward.

 

HELP!

Edited January 25, 2013 by skypilot

[chrispb123456]

The MK2 models are 90. 115. 130. 150

 

Whilst it certainly sounds like limp mode I think you need to confirm whether it's under or over boost, the symptoms are similar but not the fix.

 

If you have a laptop preferably XP get yourself one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAG-GROUP-USB-OBD2-II-KKL-ECU-DIAGNOSTIC-CABLE-LEAD-Compatible-VCDS-LITE-or-409-/330753371108?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item4d026febe4

 

Then go to here and download the free third party software http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds-lite/download/index.html

 

Use the help section on above if your not sure how to install or come back and ask.

[sambulance]

Hi, I had the turbo limp mode problem. It turned out to be the map sensor which is £20-£40 and very easy to change.

If you say you have changed the maf and the turbo actuator is moving this would be the next port of call in the turbo system. Also if you can, check the actuator is being controlled by the boost solenoid correctly as it may move freely by hand but a knackered n75 valve wont let the turbo spool up. To do this get a friend to rev to engine. Find the turbo actuator and watch to see if it moves with the engine revs. If not this could also need changing and again it is a cheap and easy fix. Hopefully your turbo is easy to find as mine is at the lower rear of the engine and i had the mrs rev the engine whilst i lay underneath the car on jack stands which can be a bit scary. Good luck

[skypilot]

Thanks guys, will give the above ideas a try and see what happens.

 

What would the symptoms of a knackered trubo be? Are the same as above, hence the difficulty in diagnosing the problem?

[sambulance]

If your turbo fails you will most likely get a lot of smoke as the oil the turbo spins on will flow in to the exhaust system. It can be a pain but if you can get to the turbo and disconnect the plastic pipe side and feel for the spindle, give a wiggle. If the spindle is tight with little play your turbo is most likely o.k. I'm not an expert but your problem is most likely a sensor failure or an air leak in the charge air system. You should give the air system a quick check for loose pipes. Good luck

[Biscuit]

Hi all

I used to have the limp mode problem on my MKII

so i bought a can of 10K boost Diesel followed instuctions on tin and it never missed a beat since.

(not got the Gal now tho')

[bigdave982]

Tried Seatkids italian tune up?

[f0ster]

hello

         I recommend you start with the cheap stuff, ie the vacuum pipes that control the turbo boost, oil can get in to the pipes and prevent the correct boost pressure from getting to the boost sensor, if the boost overshoots it them goes in to safe mode to prevent damage, replace all of them, there should be one that goes to the ecu behind the dash at the drivers side

[SilverBeast]

When it went into limp mode, did it just go to fixed 'elevated tickover' or did it still rev but was just gutless? If the engine management doesn't believe the throttle position and thinks there is a fault I understand it will put other engine at a constant speed so it can still be limped home. I recall reading that the throttle position sensor is actually 2 in parallel and if they disagree then the engine management assumes there is a fault. You could try searching the Forum for this if it sounds like your symptoms as if I recall then the sensor can be cleaned in some circumstances. I assume a wiring fault to the throttle sensor could also exhibit the same symptoms.

 

As you have already spent so much, I would suggest you buy a VAG-COM cable from eBay (less than £10) and scan for fault codes yourself. Forum members will help interpret the results. I believe the throttle position sensor and over/under boost would show up on a scan.

[skypilot]

The MK2 models are 90. 115. 130. 150

 

Whilst it certainly sounds like limp mode I think you need to confirm whether it's under or over boost, the symptoms are similar but not the fix.

 

If you have a laptop preferably XP get yourself one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAG-GROUP-USB-OBD2-II-KKL-ECU-DIAGNOSTIC-CABLE-LEAD-Compatible-VCDS-LITE-or-409-/330753371108?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item4d026febe4

 

Then go to here and download the free third party software http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds-lite/download/index.html

 

Use the help section on above if your not sure how to install or come back and ask.

 

I have ordered the cable in the link and will see what faults come up.

 

In answer to the various questions:

1. Typo - it is the 115bhp model

2. What is "Seatkids Italian tune up"?

3. No smoke so hopefully not the turbo then

4. When it went into limp mode it still revs (when not in gear) as high as it should when the accelerator is pressed but is gutless when driving. For example, even when the accelerator is to the floor, I never get more than 2,500 rpm before the limiter kicks in. Most moderate hills can only be tackled in 2nd gear and at around 2500rpm and 20mph.

 

To add to my joy, the boot will no longer shut either! I have found an excellent couple of threads on the fault (electrical wire break) but as tends to be my luck, I cannot seem to find where the break is! Hey, ho, such is life.

 

Thank you so much for all who have taken the time to give suggestions and reply - it is HUGELY appreciated and has given me hope that perhaps there is light at the end of the tunnel!

[chrispb123456]

1.Right so you have the 115ps code AUY

 

2."Seatkids Italian tune up" lol it's not really his anyone can do it though you will be hard pushed to do it at the moment the way yours is running.

It's better used as a preventative measure to help clear sticky soot build up in the turbo vanes mechanism which is possibly what you have.

 

Definition of an "Italian tune up" ideally an open stretch of road on an incline say third gear on manuals and third using tiptronic on auto's then floor the throttle up to 4000 to 4500 RPM and hold it there as long as conditions permit, 

This is mainly for cars that do a lot of stop start town driving, if you do regular motorway driving then no so essential.

Only attempt if servicing is up to date, EG. cam belt and oil level and engine at full operating temperature.

 

3.Not necessarily, the turbo oil seals may be fine but the vanes may be sticking.

There is also a lot of vacuum pipe work and boost valve (N75) that controls the actuator which operates the vanes.

[Ade66]

Hi There

 

Hope you dont mind me joing your thread, but I'm suffering from the same problem, well my Galaxy, not me! I have a 2002 1.9Tdi, intermittently (although now more frequently) going into limp mode.

 

I've put it on a code reader and I was getting 2 fault codes - 1 (sorry cant remember the code) to say MAF Sensor fault, and the other 17965 Over Boost. 

 

I changed the MAF Sensor and also cleaned the turbo via the air inlet with 'Revive Turbo Cleaner' a simple procedure to do.

1 am now only showing 17965 over boost.

 

My next step is going to be to change the MAP sensor if I can find it!

[xavier]

Ade66, does the car only go into limp mode if you take the revs over 3000, or will it go into limp mode at lower revs?

[Ade66]

Hi Xavier it will go into limp mode below and also above 3000 revs, especially on a motorway run at 70mph approx 2500 revs

[xavier]

IIRC (not sure been a long day etc) but sticking vanes on the turbo will generally only cause you a problem over 3000 revs. Map sensor's maybe worth a go though it has been known to end up with a faulty MAF sensor from new. Was the sensor an Ebay one or motor factors? VAG com cable and logging some sensor readouts (can't remember which groups to monitor) can be really useful in determining the problem.

[chrispb123456]

The rev's at which the ECU goes into limp mode is not specific, it's the time, iirc 7 seconds in an overboost situation will cause limp mode.

[simonbull38]

i have the same problem on a 98 desiel, its killing me getting 0575 code...changed a the pipe including the one inside the ecu.that one was split thought it cure it but no luck????

going to check the wastegate next. have changed the n75 got from germany its only £23 there..

also read it could be the 2 sensors in the turdo pipes comming from the intercooler? going to give them a clean today and see what hapens.. got no smoke turbo feels ok...but again at 2500 rpm in 4th gear it goes into limp mode.????

 

any more idears would be a great help now... cheers guys.

 

[xavier]

I've currently got the same problem as Ade66 - MAF sensor fault logged and positive deviation. Happened again this afternoon about 2 seconds pulling onto a slip road with uphill gradient at 2K RPM. Have felt the engine hesitate at 2.2K for a wee while now.

 

Finally went out today with VAG COM logging but don't think I logged the correct data. Logged 8, 10 and 11. One thing I did do this afternoon was change the air filter (thought it had been done 6K miles ago but looking through receipts was actually 18K miles). It was pretty grotty, car seems better since doing this though I guess it could be MAF wiring, poor connection or the filter.

[lesnott]

Hi my galaxy 2001 mk2 had a problem going into limp mode stop the car restart drives ok turbo vanes blocked with carbon simple to clean buy from ebay turbo kit around £40.00 pump into turbo fill unit leave for an hour wash out  with second tin my car drive great great bit of kit

[danny0774]

hello I was wondering if anybody can help me I have the same problem changed the maf sernsor cleaned the egr serviced it changed the brake light switch but still kept getting code p1557 so changed the map sensor and now still keep getting limp mode but different code witch reads p1155 manifold pressure sensor {g71} short to b+ good old vagicom vs450 lol but now I am at a loss is this code anything to do with the map sensor as it started as soon as I put the sensor on any information would be gratefully received thanks

[danny0774]

by the way I have a 2001 1.9 tdi mk2 engine code auy if that helps

[danny0774]

after changing the maf and all the vacuum pipes n74 valve lol turned out to just needing the turbo cleaning i put 2 bottles of forte in to about 50 litres of fuel took it for a 200 mile run then cleaned the turbo on the car with innotec work brill no probs no more hope this helps

[Trislander]

Why is this fault such a difficult one to cure?????? Arghhhhhhh

[endri]

same problem 4th gear limp mode........ problem n75valve!!!  :)