Mk 2 Tdi Will Not Start

[Caff]

Have been searching through forum and not really found answer to this problem and am sorry if it's been asked elsewhere

 

Good battery, heavy duty just under 1 year old, usually starts first time. Have not fiddled with key so pats chip should be there. Two keys same problem.

 

6 months ago. Just turned over wouldn't fire. Got out of car and found other key. Fired up fine. No probs for months.

 

Today. Same thing, wouldn't fire. Engine cranked at correct speed. Tried again few minutes later and fired first time. Drove short distance.

 

Car stood all day. Loaded it, locked it and some 15 mins later alarm went off. No obvious reason.

 

Drove car home and back out again. No probs. Parked it again for about 3 hours. Turned over didn't fire. Tried again a couple of times, can just feel it's wrong. Then just nothing, won't turn over, not even a click. No audible sounds. Got different key. No difference. Does either nothing or turns over but doesn't fire. Can't hear pump priming.

Didn't notice door light codes and have had to abandon the poor old thing.

 

Is this a relay? Or something else. I'd really appreciate some help.

 

Caff

Edited November 19, 2011 by Caff

[Caff]

Update.

Went to car this morning. Turned key in ignition. Didn't turn over but could hear a single click at black box by battery.

Door LED - when locked - normal flashing. Turned key in ignition to second position (dash lights on) LED didn't light at all. Waited 2 minutes at least like this. Did this twice, no light, tried to start engine, fired first time! Got home, started first time again... and again. Now when starts just the one flash as it actually starts.

[seatkid]

First check the battery, even though its 1 year old could be duff, or flat due to faulty alternator or cable (burnt fuse box in engine bay)- check the terminal voltage. Check battery connections and negative to chassis connection.

 

The next likely culprit is relay 109 which is the main power relay, although I "think" that the engine would still turn over even if this was faulty (not sure).

Edited November 20, 2011 by seatkid

[Caff]

Thanks seatkid. Took the fuse box cover off and the top wire shows signs of having got hot. It's very slight indeed. Just a slight melt to the cover and a little white powder on the black wire itself.Barely noticeable. Could this be the culprit? And I assume the reason for the clicking heard in the box? Or is this a separate issue? Sods Law.

Is it just a case of cleaning up the connection.Or is it a change of the cable? Shows my ignorance but am I right in assuming the battery needs to be disconnected to do this?

 

Have reproduced the problem by wiggling the cable. When it wouldn't start wiggling again it wouldn't start but tapping relay 109 it started!

Sorry for so many questions. :unsure:

[seatkid]

You probably have two problems!

 

Tapping relay 109 and it starts indicates this relay is faulty (common problem - dry joints inside relay)

 

The white powder /melted cover indicates the classic symptom of a faulty cable crimp (again common problem). Its usually the main power from the alternator to the fuse box. Basically the battery is not being charged fully. The cable has a faulty crimped end, and unless you have a new crimp and the right tools (unlikely) the solution is unfortunately a new cable.

[Caff]

Mm I think you will be proved right there. I'm going for a new cable and a new relay.

Got the multimeter out. Can't remember the actual figures but when engine running on tick=over about 14.5 volts. Load from both heated screens (couldn't get to lights switch due to stripping to get at relay)and at about 2500revs gave 13.something.

Hopefully we caught that cable early and the fusebox is undamaged, there's no corrosion of the connector.

Will post back with results.

Thanks again

[chrispb123456]

I caught mine just in time managed to solder the crimped terminal to the lead with a blowlamp, they should be like that from new save all that messing about.

Get your 109 from a VW in preference part no. 1J0906381A

[Caff]

chrispb123456 What solder did you use?

 

Haven't got bits yet. VW for relay

[chrispb123456]

Cored flux solder, take care if doing it in situ as there's not much slack in the cable, you will need a blow lamp with a small nozzle preferably.

Wasn't sure exactly how much the relays are but generally VW are cheaper.

[Caff]

After lots of phone calls and visits to both Volkswagen and Ford.

Relay from VW - sorted.

Took cable which connects alternator to battery fuse box. It's 140cm long and about 7.5mm diameter,it has an extra corrugated black plastic cover. All code numbers do not correspond to VW or Ford codes. Not sure how much effort VW put into finding out anything behind their door but Ford showed us all their diagrams and it looks non standard and the real alternator assembly cable has two wires. To check a mechanic was consulted and he queried why we were changing that cable, it looked OK. He said the fault was the fuse box and the red cable from the battery, he's always changing them. Approx

[seatkid]

He said the fault was the fuse box and the red cable from the battery, he's always changing them. Approx

[Caff]

Changed said items. Presumably different problem. Turn ignition key and get clicking (sparking?) from somewhere to left and below battery, coil? and all dash lights flash with the clicking. Sounds awful. At wits end. Wanted car for long journey. At least I have the fiesta :unsure: Just don't know what to do now. Battery charging but at 12.1v. Doesn't sound like anything I've heard before.

[Caff]

Checked connections to starter and solenoid and earths. Soldered connection of alternator cable at fuse box as previously intended. Can't work out a reason for this as nothing else has been touched.

At wits end and knackered :unsure:

[seatkid]

Is that left as looking to the front or back of vehicle?

 

Did you put everything back together exactly as it was? (A photo is always a good idea). Did you change the fuse box? Are the replacement items the same as original?

 

IIRC there are a number of wires going to the positive terminal on the battery, did you put them all back - I recall someone posting about a wire dropped down the side of the battery. Also check the crimps on these wires.

Edited November 21, 2011 by seatkid

[Caff]

Left of battery standing in front and looking back. (Starter motor?) Think everything back in place. There's a photo on the forum somewhere of the fuse box which confirmed what we'd written down, order of cables etc.

Fuse box new, relay 109 new, battery/alternator cable resoldered.

Can't see any stray wires.

Tomorrow evening O/H is going to put everything back as it was and start again.

[turk90210]

Sounds like a possible earth problem if you have put all the others back properly? Do you have access to a multimeter and know the basics of how to use it , if so can talk you through a basic test on positive and negative leads which might point you in the right direction

[chrispb123456]

Clicking and lights flashing could also be flat battery, assuming the battery is still OK you need to charge it for a minimum of 24 hrs better still 48 hrs.

[Caff]

Thank you both. Thought of the battery so it's has been on charge over night. It's reading 12.5 at mo. Got to leave for Aberystwyth (going to miss the comfort of the Gal!) so can't do anything now. Have multimeter but not at all competent in its use! Help would be wonderful. Will start again tonight.

Thanks again to everyone who's helping

[seatkid]

Was also thinking flat battery. 12.5 on charge indicates possible duff battery, should be 14 volts or more on charge and 12.6 when charger disconnected and battery rested for an hour.

 

Good luck Caff, Im away a few days because of crisis in family.

Edited November 22, 2011 by seatkid

[Caff]

Yeah...... :ph34r: :lol: :D

 

Thanks for all your help.

 

Couldn't charge battery when we were away yesterday but battery has been on charge all today.

Started first time this evening.

 

Assuming that our problems have upset my battery. Was at 11.8v this am. Started the engine with 12.5 volts. Alternator charges at 14.4v at 2000revs no load.

 

Thanks again everyone that's chipped in. You should have seen us dancing around!

 

Saved our bacon, sanity and money