Run On Pumps

[burg]

hi guys, have just bought 55 plate galaxy, its been back to dealer a few times and is due to go again on tuesday. it has had overheating problems,i asked ford dealer about the run on pump,but they told me it is only the new shape galaxy that has this but not mine, could you please let me have your opinions on this as reading your posts it seems mine does have one

[Mirez]

hi guys, have just bought 55 plate galaxy, its been back to dealer a few times and is due to go again on tuesday. it has had overheating problems,i asked ford dealer about the run on pump,but they told me it is only the new shape galaxy that has this but not mine, could you please let me have your opinions on this as reading your posts it seems mine does have one

 

It will 100% have an auxillary pump although in Ford speak its the "Auxillary coolant flow pump" and not a "run-on" pump - but they should know what you mean by your description! However,even if that pump is faulty it won't be the cause of your problem, at a very least its a mediocre backup to the primary water pump but its main purpose has nothing to do with cooling the engine during operation.

 

By far the most common reason for your problem would be the impellor coming adrift from the primary water pump, followed by a sticking thermostat, blockage in the system and finally head gasket failure.

[burg]

hi guys, have just bought 55 plate galaxy, its been back to dealer a few times and is due to go again on tuesday. it has had overheating problems,i asked ford dealer about the run on pump,but they told me it is only the new shape galaxy that has this but not mine, could you please let me have your opinions on this as reading your posts it seems mine does have one

 

It will 100% have an auxillary pump although in Ford speak its the "Auxillary coolant flow pump" and not a "run-on" pump - but they should know what you mean by your description! However,even if that pump is faulty it won't be the cause of your problem, at a very least its a mediocre backup to the primary water pump but its main purpose has nothing to do with cooling the engine during operation.

 

By far the most common reason for your problem would be the impellor coming adrift from the primary water pump, followed by a sticking thermostat, blockage in the system and finally head gasket failure.

cheers mirez,when i took the car back they fit a new water pump & thermostat. this has cured the overheating, but now when i start up & drive away the temp warning light comes on and stays on flashing constant, the temp is fine just the light stays on. Any ideas ?

[chrispb123456]

Check the wiring and connector on the coolant bottle, you may need to remove battery to do this easily

[burg]

Check the wiring and connector on the coolant bottle, you may need to remove battery to do this easily

thanks for the advice chrispb123456 i'll try that tommorow.fingers crossed,another problem i have found, the heater blows hot and cold,which i think probably needs bleeding would you agree,because the temp is normal 90

[burg]

Check the wiring and connector on the coolant bottle, you may need to remove battery to do this easily

thanks for the advice chrispb123456 i'll try that tommorow.fingers crossed,another problem i have found, the heater blows hot and cold,which i think probably needs bleeding would you agree,because the temp is normal 90

[chrispb123456]

Hi Burg

Since you had the new water pump and stat fitted hows the coolant level been? have you needed to top up the level, is there pressure there when caps removed when cold? can you see air bubbles in the coolant when engines running.

 

Any air in the system will bleed itself out if the cap is left of while engines warming up, if there is air constantly entering the system then you most surely have head gasket failure.

 

Did you confirm whether your run on pump is working? its located on the bulkhead behind fuel filter, it runs all the time engines running and for a few minutes when engines switched off so if you cant hear it it's probably not working.

[burg]

Hi Burg

Since you had the new water pump and stat fitted hows the coolant level been? have you needed to top up the level, is there pressure there when caps removed when cold? can you see air bubbles in the coolant when engines running.

 

Any air in the system will bleed itself out if the cap is left of while engines warming up, if there is air constantly entering the system then you most surely have head gasket failure.

 

Did you confirm whether your run on pump is working? its located on the bulkhead behind fuel filter, it runs all the time engines running and for a few minutes when engines switched off so if you cant hear it it's probably not working.

first of all happy birthday, just seen your profile hope you had a great day.secondly thanks yet again for the advice, have bled the system as you said and heater now seems to be working and the temp light has gone out so cheers for that mate.also have seen the run on pump but definately can't here it,do you know what damage this can do if its not working.hope you don't answer this tonight or before tommorow afternoon,if you do you will have to have another go at celebrating at the weekend.have a gooden.

[chrispb123456]

Hi Burg

 

Thanks for the Birthday wishes

 

Right the primary purpose of these pumps is to avoid excessive heat build up (hot spots) when engines switched off after a run, consequences being possible premature head gasket failure, cracked cylinder head.

The pump also aids circulation through the rear compartment heater and the correct operation of the booster heater, this is fitted under the car on the passenger side, it is fully automatic and should kick in if the air temperature is below 10deg c.

It's purpose is assist fast warm up in colder weather.

 

ps will be celebrating this weekend 3 day break at Hayling Island.

 

cheers M8

[burg]

Hi Burg

 

Thanks for the Birthday wishes

 

Right the primary purpose of these pumps is to avoid excessive heat build up (hot spots) when engines switched off after a run, consequences being possible premature head gasket failure, cracked cylinder head.

The pump also aids circulation through the rear compartment heater and the correct operation of the booster heater, this is fitted under the car on the passenger side, it is fully automatic and should kick in if the air temperature is below 10deg c.

It's purpose is assist fast warm up in colder weather.

 

ps will be celebrating this weekend 3 day break at Hayling Island.

 

cheers M8

thanks again mate have spoke again to ford dealer about this pump running on for a few minutes after engine switched off,and they still say they haven't got a clue what i'm talking about. strange hey

[chrispb123456]

That doesn't surprise me when you listen to other members experiences with dealers, unless there acting dumb because it's going to cost them money.

I think you will have to indicate to them the part, don't be fobbed off by excuses.

[Mirez]

That doesn't surprise me when you listen to other members experiences with dealers, unless there acting dumb because it's going to cost them money.

I think you will have to indicate to them the part, don't be fobbed off by excuses.

 

Agreed - there are no two ways about it - ALL MK2 Diesels have this pump so for them to say they don't know what you are talking about would start alarm bells ringing for me. Fortunately, you can see it without moving anything in the engine bay (just) so when you take it in you can point it out to them - then tell them to look up "Auxiliary coolant flow pump" on ETIS if they still won't believe you!

Just make sure its deffo dead first or you'll look a bit of a fool lol.

[burg]

That doesn't surprise me when you listen to other members experiences with dealers, unless there acting dumb because it's going to cost them money.

I think you will have to indicate to them the part, don't be fobbed off by excuses.

 

Agreed - there are no two ways about it - ALL MK2 Diesels have this pump so for them to say they don't know what you are talking about would start alarm bells ringing for me. Fortunately, you can see it without moving anything in the engine bay (just) so when you take it in you can point it out to them - then tell them to look up "Auxiliary coolant flow pump" on ETIS if they still won't believe you!

Just make sure its deffo dead first or you'll look a bit of a fool lol.

hi mirez,i didn't buy the car from the ford dealership,it was one of the technical blokes in a suit,i'll try and catch one of the mechanics.also do any of you know how i can download a copy of the workshop manual cheers chaps. i'll keep you updated on the run on pump saga

[burg]

have been back to ford armed with pictures and part numbers i got from faqs part of technical section [only just found this after how many weeks] he first of all said this was only on swedish models, than he rang back to say it is on mine but only works when outside temp is below a certain degree, does this make sense to you guys

[Mirez]

have been back to ford armed with pictures and part numbers i got from faqs part of technical section [only just found this after how many weeks] he first of all said this was only on swedish models, than he rang back to say it is on mine but only works when outside temp is below a certain degree, does this make sense to you guys

 

Yes and No, he's confused the aux heater and the run-on pump. The auxiliary heater (of which the run-on pump is most associated) only runs when the temperature is below 10*c HOWEVER the run-on pump has multiple roles and runs at ALL times when the engine is running and for 3 minutes after... if the pumps not working now then there is no way the auxiliary heater will work when the temps go below 10. So once again he's mistaken...

[burg]

have been back to ford armed with pictures and part numbers i got from faqs part of technical section [only just found this after how many weeks] he first of all said this was only on swedish models, than he rang back to say it is on mine but only works when outside temp is below a certain degree, does this make sense to you guys

 

Yes and No, he's confused the aux heater and the run-on pump. The auxiliary heater (of which the run-on pump is most associated) only runs when the temperature is below 10*c HOWEVER the run-on pump has multiple roles and runs at ALL times when the engine is running and for 3 minutes after... if the pumps not working now then there is no way the auxiliary heater will work when the temps go below 10. So once again he's mistaken...

cheers mirez, i'll be back to fords again tommorow armed with even more ammo, i'll probably be back tommorow with a job offer for you.i'll keep you informed.thanks

[burg]

have been back to ford armed with pictures and part numbers i got from faqs part of technical section [only just found this after how many weeks] he first of all said this was only on swedish models, than he rang back to say it is on mine but only works when outside temp is below a certain degree, does this make sense to you guys

 

Yes and No, he's confused the aux heater and the run-on pump. The auxiliary heater (of which the run-on pump is most associated) only runs when the temperature is below 10*c HOWEVER the run-on pump has multiple roles and runs at ALL times when the engine is running and for 3 minutes after... if the pumps not working now then there is no way the auxiliary heater will work when the temps go below 10. So once again he's mistaken...

hi chaps,went back to local ford and still they say it only works at a certain temp,so i rang another dealer who would only say they just plug the vehicles in to diagnostic and do what the machine says,but advised me to read the hand book that comes with the vehicle and sure enough it was in there, unfortunately i dont know how to put photos on these posts to show you [due to me being a technophobe] but if you have the hand book with your cars it is on page 76 and it says "the booster heater[not to be confused with the additional heating system] is a standard feature on diesel vehicles and can only be activated when the engine is running.It aids in warming both the engine and the interior compartment. The booster heater switches on automatically if the outside temp is below 10 deg C and the coolant temp is below 75 deg C." then tere is a few lines of bunf and then, "when the booster heater is activated a ticking sound can be heard coming from the pump.when turning off the engine the blower can still be heard for a short period. in order to avoid a build-up of heat, the system is cooled down by the after-running effect". i have now stopped about 5 vehicles all have not got the run on noise. I reckon all the people in Ipswich with galaxys think i'm cuckooo

[Mirez]

Well as said its not the booster heater or additional heating system - yes its PART of that system but the pump is not controlled by it and is independent. It won't register as a diagnosic fault as its a dumb 12V pump with no comms, the only indication would be by accessing module 18 and seeing if there are any "overtemp" shutdowns. I'm not that suprised you can't find another with it working as dealers certainly dont seem to have a clue and a lot of people simply don't care until something fails in a major way (which it won't) - I doubt any of the people you stopped even knew what it was or did.

 

The very simple test here is to get a volt meter on the pumps connector - It'll have 12V when the iginitions been on for at least a minute, in your case the pump won't work - you can then ask them why when its a simple 12V pump and you give it an input of 12V it won't work? Ohh yeah because its friggin broken. If you could then do the "you are such a moron" look I would be happy :(

 

If they refuse to accept they are wrong then get them to put it down in writing, that way when winter roles around and your aux heating system fails you can go back in and tell them you were right and demand it fixed :)

[chrispb123456]

Hi Burg

Maybe would be good idea to get yourself a Vagcom lead off Ebay and scan for any fault codes you could then print them off and take to dealer, the pump itself as Mirez said wont show a fault because it's not controlled by the heating module.

Of course if you fancy a run to Kent I could do it for you :(

As for asking other people, when I took mine for MOT in January I ask the tester how many Galaxy's Sharan's and Alhambra's he get's in and has heard the heater running, he replied yours is the only one iv'e ever heard running.

[burg]

Hi Burg

Maybe would be good idea to get yourself a Vagcom lead off Ebay and scan for any fault codes you could then print them off and take to dealer, the pump itself as Mirez said wont show a fault because it's not controlled by the heating module.

Of course if you fancy a run to Kent I could do it for you :)

As for asking other people, when I took mine for MOT in January I ask the tester how many Galaxy's Sharan's and Alhambra's he get's in and has heard the heater running, he replied yours is the only one iv'e ever heard running.

hi chaps, back again,after i last went to local ford dealer and they still said they think it operates at certain temps,they then gave me an exploded diagram of the pump and told me thats as much as they can do, why they gave me the diagram i dont know ,there is no info on it. Unfortunately or fortunately which ever way you look at it i didn't buy the car from them so i won't be able to get anymore info from them so i have spoke to the technical section of ford itself and i must say he didn't seem to confident and after a couple of muffled attempts to answer told me he would have to read up on it but i would be better writing in with a request for the info and they should give me the info in writing, what do you think of my chances,not much eh.I have written a letter anyway and even put a stamped adressed envelope in with it. Watch this space,

[Mirez]

Just replace the pump, its failed - end of.

 

Or go and speak to your local SEAT dealer, in my experience they generally care a lot more about the cars :)

 

You could also ask an independent BOSCH dealer as they normally sell these quite frequently as its the same pump thats used on the Mk4 Golf, Ibiza and T4.

[burg]

Just replace the pump, its failed - end of.

 

Or go and speak to your local SEAT dealer, in my experience they generally care a lot more about the cars :)

 

You could also ask an independent BOSCH dealer as they normally sell these quite frequently as its the same pump thats used on the Mk4 Golf, Ibiza and T4.

hi mirez,i will change the pump but i kinda like to hear the ford spiel and see them squirm a bit, also thanks for that about the mk4 golf i didn't know that and our other car is a mk4 golf, so thats not working either,i'm not having a good day today still it's nice to know,[they allways say a day without learning somthing is a wasted day] cheers mate. I'll let you know what ford say it may be a laugh at least

[burg]

Just replace the pump, its failed - end of.

 

Or go and speak to your local SEAT dealer, in my experience they generally care a lot more about the cars :)

 

You could also ask an independent BOSCH dealer as they normally sell these quite frequently as its the same pump thats used on the Mk4 Golf, Ibiza and T4.

hi mirez,i will change the pump but i kinda like to hear the ford spiel and see them squirm a bit, also thanks for that about the mk4 golf i didn't know that and our other car is a mk4 golf, so thats not working either,i'm not having a good day today still it's nice to know,[they allways say a day without learning somthing is a wasted day] cheers mate. I'll let you know what ford say it may be a laugh at least

got my reply from ford technical division today quote! after switching on booster heater, the auxiliary coolant pump starts up to circulate the coolant whilst it is being heated.

the pump may also occasionally continue to operate after engine shut down for a brief period of time to circulate the coolant should certain unexpected conditions exist, e.g. if the engine management system detects a very high over-heating situation starting to occur, Under normal operations the coolant pump switches off when the engine is shut down. hope this info is useful to somebody.

Edited June 17, 2011 by burg

[Mirez]

got my reply from ford technical division today quote! after switching on booster heater, the auxiliary coolant pump starts up to circulate the coolant whilst it is being heated.

the pump may also occasionally continue to operate after engine shut down for a brief period of time to circulate the coolant should certain unexpected conditions exist, e.g. if the engine management system detects a very high over-heating situation starting to occur, Under normal operations the coolant pump switches off when the engine is shut down. hope this info is useful to somebody.

 

lol - really...

 

Maybe thats what VW told Ford at concept stage but its certainly not how it functions by design now lol

[chrispb123456]

got my reply from ford technical division today quote! after switching on booster heater, the auxiliary coolant pump starts up to circulate the coolant whilst it is being heated.

the pump may also occasionally continue to operate after engine shut down for a brief period of time to circulate the coolant should certain unexpected conditions exist, e.g. if the engine management system detects a very high over-heating situation starting to occur, Under normal operations the coolant pump switches off when the engine is shut down. hope this info is useful to somebody.

 

lol - really...

 

Maybe thats what VW told Ford at concept stage but its certainly not how it functions by design now lol

Hi Burg/Mirez

That sounds very much like the operation of independent heating, and thinking about it the TIS manual only shows the auxiliary coolant pump with the independent heating option, but as most of us know it is standard on the MK2 diesels as is the booster heater.

It doesn't give you much faith in ford technical or the dealers.

 

Can only repeat the important points

 

1.Auxiliary coolant pump (run on pump) runs continuous all the time engines running and a few minutes after switch off

without it you run the risk of hot spots building up after switch off which could lead to premature head gasket failure and/or distorted/cracked cylinder head

 

2.Poor heat output from rear compartment heater due to little or no coolant flow.

 

3.Booster heater will keep shutting down then starting up (cycling) and possibly record an overheat again due to no coolant flow.