Running Galaxy With Hho System

[sugarfree]

ive just installed a HHO system on my 2.3 petrol si Galaxy, i also added on a bubbler which i made from a tupa ware air tight container, i found the system very easy to install, i included a MAF sensor controller the whole system cost

[bj2004]

Wow is it true? i can run my car on water i know if i use electroysis i can get hydrogen and oxygen out of water but the system is very ineficient i hope people on here are too inteligent to believe theese snake oil claims

[sugarfree]

Wow is it true? i can run my car on water i know if i use electroysis i can get hydrogen and oxygen out of water but the system is very ineficient i hope people on here are too inteligent to believe theese snake oil claims

 

what a sado growup

[sugarfree]

instead of running the idea down with your smutty reply why dont you put on your results of using it let everyone know why it didnt work for you was it you couldnt understand the instructions maybe i could help you

[gregers]

watching :)

[bj2004]

Its a fantastic idea and i hope you get lots of people to go for it you may make someone lots of money

But at the end of the day its a con The Physics behind it is marginaly true but the practicality of it is dreamed up to con money out of people who probably cant afford to loose it i realize you may be embarrased by this revelation but sometimes the truth hurts sorry

[sugarfree]

i asked a question no need to get on your high horse and if any one is embarrassed it should be you with your lack basic intelligence no one is trying to make money just put the idea into practice to make improvments as you are a dowting thomas and dont want to take part for what ever reason i dont know maybe your to poor on the dole who knows let other people see what they make of it i dont know what if any extra MPG i get yet but with the acetone ive gone from 17 miles on

[bj2004]

If you are producing acetone from a crude form of electrolysis then i am sure the military will be interested so am i

how do you do it ?

[Mirez]

Well I'm not here to bash you or your thoughts but HHO systems can't work in cars and its really very basic physics. For anyone not clued up on HHO's I'll briefly explain:

 

A HHO system (hybrid hydrogen oxygen) works by using electricity to split water into its constituent components - that's two atoms of hydrogen and one of oxygen. The principle is sound and the gas generated is real, indeed you can run a vehicle off it. So it all sounds great however there is a problem, basic physics teaches us that the energy generated through recombining the atoms (ie through combustion) can only ever be less or equal to the amount of energy it took to separate them - it physically can't be more.

 

Since you have a more volatile gas entering the intake, the fuel mixture will generally burn a little better and subsequently give's the illusion of smoother running - in reality though the increased electrical load required to run the system puts an extra load on the alternator which in turn takes more from the engines output.

 

So to sum up, the MPG figure physically can't increase - the computers readout may make it look better but that's purely down to how sensors are being fooled. However on the plus side the effects of the system *should* aid the combustion process, resulting in a cleaner burn but with no increase in MPG and much increased loading on the electrical system.

[bj2004]

Stand by to be flamed Mirez i dont think he likes facts

[sugarfree]

Well I'm not here to bash you or your thoughts but HHO systems can't work in cars and its really very basic physics. For anyone not clued up on HHO's I'll briefly explain:

 

A HHO system (hybrid hydrogen oxygen) works by using electricity to split water into its constituent components - that's two atoms of hydrogen and one of oxygen. The principle is sound and the gas generated is real, indeed you can run a vehicle off it. So it all sounds great however there is a problem, basic physics teaches us that the energy generated through recombining the atoms (ie through combustion) can only ever be less or equal to the amount of energy it took to separate them - it physically can't be more.

 

Since you have a more volatile gas entering the intake, the fuel mixture will generally burn a little better and subsequently give's the illusion of smoother running - in reality though the increased electrical load required to run the system puts an extra load on the alternator which in turn takes more from the engines output.

 

So to sum up, the MPG figure physically can't increase - the computers readout may make it look better but that's purely down to how sensors are being fooled. However on the plus side the effects of the system *should* aid the combustion process, resulting in a cleaner burn but with no increase in MPG and much increased loading on the electrical system.

[sugarfree]

Well I'm not here to bash you or your thoughts but HHO systems can't work in cars and its really very basic physics. For anyone not clued up on HHO's I'll briefly explain:

 

A HHO system (hybrid hydrogen oxygen) works by using electricity to split water into its constituent components - that's two atoms of hydrogen and one of oxygen. The principle is sound and the gas generated is real, indeed you can run a vehicle off it. So it all sounds great however there is a problem, basic physics teaches us that the energy generated through recombining the atoms (ie through combustion) can only ever be less or equal to the amount of energy it took to separate them - it physically can't be more.

 

Since you have a more volatile gas entering the intake, the fuel mixture will generally burn a little better and subsequently give's the illusion of smoother running - in reality though the increased electrical load required to run the system puts an extra load on the alternator which in turn takes more from the engines output.

 

So to sum up, the MPG figure physically can't increase - the computers readout may make it look better but that's purely down to how sensors are being fooled. However on the plus side the effects of the system *should* aid the combustion process, resulting in a cleaner burn but with no increase in MPG and much increased loading on the electrical system.

thanks for your info on that what about using a pulse width modulator to reduce the power yet increase the gas made in the cell and is it true that HHO will remove all the carbon deposits from the engine restoring lost power and increasing MPG to when the car was new im after info on the subject from people who have tried it themselves as your can see some poeple are just so full of themselves many thanks mirez

[Mirez]

thanks for your info on that what about using a pulse width modulator to reduce the power yet increase the gas made in the cell and is it true that HHO will remove all the carbon deposits from the engine restoring lost power and increasing MPG to when the car was new im after info on the subject from people who have tried it themselves as your can see some poeple are just so full of themselves many thanks mirez

 

I'm not sure exactly what you want to use a PWM for but you can't change a physic's law - its a law of life, there are no ways around it just like gravity and the "first law of thermodynamics" (should you want to look it up) is what bounds this process - To simplify - Because you need power to create power it can never give more. If for the sake of argument you used a battery not connected in any way to the vehicle system to drive the HHO system then yes it would result in an increase but because HHO's require energy to work from the same system they put energy back into it can physically never be more. Fiddling with the electrical system, changing the amount's of gas or anything else will all be bound by the same law so unless you power the HHO from something unconnected to the vehicle and its forces its a futile exercise.

 

In thoery a HHO system would reduce further buildup of carbon inside the engine, as the burn is technically cleaner. In reality you would have to drive the vehicle over a massive distance to see any form of reduction so to "restore lost power and increase MPG" would be highly unlikely.

[gregers]

still watching :lol: Edited March 22, 2011 by gregers

[Ghia-X]

Sugarfree , if you are certain that you're getting improved mileage from your HHO system, here's an experiment for you to try...

 

First, make sure you can turn your electrolysis cell off and on while driving.

 

Now with the cell turned off, drive at a constant 60mph for a minute or two, so that the engine reaches a steady temperature. Don't use cruise-control, just use your foot to position the accelerator so your speed remains constant.

 

Without moving your foot (the one on the accelerator), turn on your electrolysis cell.

 

Now if all the claims for HHO are true, your engine will be developing 20%-30% more power than it did with the electrolysis cell turned off , so you should notice your speed increase to around 70-75mph as the HHO gas starts flowing.

 

If you don't get this increase, then it's not working.

 

 

Or you could do this the other way...

 

 

Ensure your electrolysis cell is energized and drive along at a steady 60mph. Now turn off the cell without moving the accelerator up or down.

 

Your engine's power should drop noticeably -- since the combustion efficiency will (according to the pro-HHO people) now be much lower than before. THis means your car should slow down quite noticeably -- perhaps to as little as 45mph.

 

If you try these experiments and don't see the changes you should then you can be pretty sure that the fuel-efficiency you think your seeing is just the placebo effect or your engine's electronic management system being fooled into running your vehicle dangerously lean (with a high risk of damage).

[chrispb123456]

still watching :)

You got me watching aswell now :lol: Next!!

[sugarfree]

Sugarfree , if you are certain that you're getting improved mileage from your HHO system, here's an experiment for you to try...

 

First, make sure you can turn your electrolysis cell off and on while driving.

 

Now with the cell turned off, drive at a constant 60mph for a minute or two, so that the engine reaches a steady temperature. Don't use cruise-control, just use your foot to position the accelerator so your speed remains constant.

 

Without moving your foot (the one on the accelerator), turn on your electrolysis cell.

 

Now if all the claims for HHO are true, your engine will be developing 20%-30% more power than it did with the electrolysis cell turned off , so you should notice your speed increase to around 70-75mph as the HHO gas starts flowing.

 

If you don't get this increase, then it's not working.

 

 

Or you could do this the other way...

 

 

Ensure your electrolysis cell is energized and drive along at a steady 60mph. Now turn off the cell without moving the accelerator up or down.

 

Your engine's power should drop noticeably -- since the combustion efficiency will (according to the pro-HHO people) now be much lower than before. THis means your car should slow down quite noticeably -- perhaps to as little as 45mph.

 

If you try these experiments and don't see the changes you should then you can be pretty sure that the fuel-efficiency you think your seeing is just the placebo effect or your engine's electronic management system being fooled into running your vehicle dangerously lean (with a high risk of damage).

cheers for that ive just found out that using the pcv line isnt a good idea way too much vacume, ill try what u said tho, when i first turn on the cell with the bonnet open (i have remote control starting) the engine does go much quieter dont know if its the cell or water vapour but all im doing is trying to find a gimick gadget anything to save money as its so dam expensive to drive these days the acetone defo makes a saving proved that 100%, i started the topic as ive been told time and time again NO YOU CANT or no that wont work but proved peolpe wrong from the days of an apprentice mechanic 31 years ago if you dont try you dont know and if we didnt keep pushing the boundries then the world would still be flat and we would be living in caves just one more thing since installing the pulse width modulator from ebay im only drawing 5 amps but producing much more gas infact ive had to change the bubbler today to a bigger one and can now turn the signal down more on the MAF sensor, taking it to friends garage to see whats going on with emissions next week, ive been in touch with DVLA i got to send log book off as its classed as dual fuel but the good news is i get cheaper road tax "yippy" just got to get the emmissions checked and system checked out

[cyborg]

What an intresting discussion good post sugerfree.

 

If think there would be a potential bhp increase but it cannot be measured by 30% increase and you go 30% faster as you can't truly measure the power created by switching system on/off as ratio for economy changes by atmospheric drag causing resistance and road level which increase the faster you go so really needs lab conditions wind tunnel required.Or expect less substantial increases...

 

Example on wiki probably a better explanation .

A car cruising on a highway at 50 mph (80 km/h) may require only 10 horsepower (7.5 kW) to overcome air drag, but that same car at 100 mph (160 km/h) requires 80 hp (60 kW). With a doubling of speed the drag (force) quadruples per the formula. Exerting four times the force over a fixed distance produces four times as much work . At twice the speed the work (resulting in displacement over a fixed distance) is done twice as fast. Since power is the rate of doing work, four times the work done in half the time requires eight times the power.

on the flip side you need stainless exhaust as your exhasust will rust as h2o byproduct. not sure how valve seals would react over time and piston rings and liners may rust over night.

 

Unfortunatly Oil companies own every patton and file them under B and your up against conditioning years of subliminal advertising look up Stan Meyer.

 

ethanol and veggie cars theres something in that.