Seatdriver Posted January 16, 2011 Report Posted January 16, 2011 Right ho, Now this 55 alhambra 1.9tdi 130 is driving me nuts. There is a noise that sounds like a dry bearing coming from under the bonnet. This sound appears after the revs of the car have begun to drop. The only item under the bonnet that I and the main agent can point a finger at is the turbo. I have noticed a few posts where people make mention of hearing this noise but no one ever posts a solution or the cause. I would be very grateful if all you 130bhp tdi guys could have a listen next time you drive your car and let me know if you hear a dry bearing noise that appears after the engine starts to slow (typically round the 2500rpm mark. So far I have followed a careful logical investigation into this by 1 removing the aux belt so PS pump Compressor Alt and tensioner are all static (noise still there) 2 With Aux belt removed I have revved up engine with clutch up (noise still there) 3 With Aux belt removed I have revved up engine with clutch down (noise still there) So you can see it can only be one or both of two things 1 Turbo or its associated pipework 2 The DMF Now its worth noting that when the car is cold there is a chattering sound from the gearbox area, which could be the springs in the clutch adjusting for a going faulty DMF or indeed could it be the DMF springs chattering. This noise dissappears when the car has gone a few miles. The car spends 99% of its time crawling round town so if it was a 110 tdi I would be expecting overboost issues by now, this doesnt seem to be an issue with the 130's. Having received good advice from this forum I would like anyone reading this to have a listen to their car and see if it is a common fault with the 130's. As a thought if the EGR valve was to stick open could this cause any sort of cycling of the turbo ie exhaust gas passing back into inlet when the turbo is spooling down. Oh and the main agent had a 130 which they sold that made the same noise but the guy who bought it moved away so they were unable to say if the noise was ever found. This is the only thing spoiling a damn good car. Thanks Quote
FLENG Posted January 16, 2011 Report Posted January 16, 2011 im sure i have the same dry noise, sort of like a release bearing noise, i noticed it when i change gear more when the car is cold, the same noise you describe. i think its the excess pressure from the turbo being released but im sure it shouldn't sound like it does i had a golf before same engine (sort of) and that sounded smooth like a quiet dump valve hope someone can shed some light... Quote
Seatdriver Posted January 16, 2011 Author Report Posted January 16, 2011 Fleng, Right now then everyone else who views this post please next time you drive your car listen for this dry bearing sound on your car, on my car it wasn't there when the car was 12 months old but it is there now. Something is misbehaving or is choked up but what it is I am unsure. With enough information ie car mileage, how its been driven etc I am certain the cause of this noise can be diagnosed and cured. I have considered buying a Zafira as a new car replacement to be rid of this noise!!!!!! Quote
gregers Posted January 16, 2011 Report Posted January 16, 2011 I have considered buying a Zafira as a new car replacement to be rid of this noise!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO dont do it. Quote
seatkid Posted January 16, 2011 Report Posted January 16, 2011 [quote name='Seatdriver' timestamp='1295204906' post='160413'] Fleng, With enough information ie car mileage, how its been driven etc I am certain the cause of this noise can be diagnosed and cured. [/quote] .....I see a bearing.....it is dry....and is crying out for the lubrication...... Sorry the only way to diagnose strange noise is to get up close - use a stick or a stethoscope to try and isolate it. It could be cambelt roller or tensioner. It could even be camshaft gear or secondary fuel pump. It might be a vacuum leak or an EGR valve whistle. Many other possibilities I'm sure. [b][i]"no one ever posts a solution or the cause"[/i][/b] Maybe I'm getting old but of late there have been a few posters posting the same tirade... if only they search though the tens of thousands of posts on this forum they will see most things have been covered in full many times over. If not - you've got something thats unique! By all means threaten us with a Zafira Its been done before eh gregers?? Quote
Seatdriver Posted January 16, 2011 Author Report Posted January 16, 2011 This noise is driving me mad! Maybe this is why I am considering buying a very poor replacement, but someone MUST know what is making this noise. If I have to I will return the car to the main agent (or the local turbo experts) they charge the same per hour and see if they can diagnose the noise but I do not have an endless supply of money to throw at it. Is there any member who is a turbo wizz! Is there a re circulation system on the turbos on the Alhambra 130 1.9 tdi? Come on everyone save me from a fate worse than vauxhall, Quote
seatkid Posted January 16, 2011 Report Posted January 16, 2011 [quote name='Seatdriver' timestamp='1295214576' post='160426'] This weekend i'm going to try to record this noise and put it on youtube so everyone can hear it.[/quote] Words fail me.... Quote
Willie Krashitt Posted January 17, 2011 Report Posted January 17, 2011 Hi, Dump valves: Diesels don't need them as there is no 'throttle plate' blocking the inlet tract to cause the turbo to slow down. Your noise question though. If it is the turbo, the noise will differ with load (ie no load 2500rpm you might have the turbo running at 85,000rpm, whereas at 2500rpm WOT it will be around 225,000rpm. If the turbo bearings were a cause, I suspect it would have failed by now. Does the noise pitch synchronise with the turbo 'whistling' as you go on/off boost? EGR valve: If the valve is open with boost, air can 'short circuit' giving boost issues, but is almost always accompanied with tons of smoke out the back when you accelerate. When you are next under the bonnet, pull the hose off the valve and listen for valve operation as you pull the hose off and put it back on again. As on another post/topic, leave the hose off and blank it and it will remove the valve from your list of possibilities. No noise whatsoever may suggest it is stuck open or shut. EGR valves are a lot easier and less expensive than DMFs and Turbos. When you removed the FEAD belt, was there any perceptible play in the crankshaft pulley? The rubber damping part can fail, but this is extremely rare. DMF noises are usually at their worst at lower speeds and under load. The drive gets horribly jerky very quickly with lots of accompanying rattling noise. If the noise is not there if you dip the clutch on a decel (ie same road speed with engine idling) then it suggests that the wheel bearings/cv joints etc are ok. My car's dry bearing noise was a wheel bearing at just 59,000 miles. This leaves the clutch release bearing, the water pump and the timing belt tensioner and idler as about all that is left. As Seatkid suggests, a stethoscope or long screwdriver (tip on bit to listen to, handle in ear) around the various components might be your next best step Happy hunting, George. Quote
Sher Posted January 17, 2011 Report Posted January 17, 2011 Since it happens when your revs drop is it possible that the one way clutch mechanism on the alternator is playing up? Quote
Sher Posted January 17, 2011 Report Posted January 17, 2011 Since it happens when your revs drop is it possible that the one way clutch mechanism on the alternator is playing up? Quote
FLENG Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) think my noise could be the release bearing as i can only hear it when i change gear and not when i let off the gas and its louder when cold ... but then when i turn the car off i get a similar kind of noise, not sure what that is or whether there related edit: as for the dump valves, there must be something for the excess pressure to be released when the turbo is boosting, i used to hear a faint noise on my golf tdi when you were boosting then suddenly take your foot off the gas, the only way i could describe the noise is a very light dump value kind of noise, ive heard it on most turbo diesels... Edited January 18, 2011 by FLENG Quote
seatkid Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='FLENG' timestamp='1295333115' post='160475'] edit: as for the dump valves, there must be something for the excess pressure to be released when turbo is boosting, i used to hear a faint noise on my golf tdi when you were boosting then suddenly take your foot off the gas, the only way i could describe the noise is a very light dump value kind of noise, ive heard it on most turbo diesels... [/quote] The early 90bhp Tdi engine uses a turbo with a vacuum controlled wastegate. All Pds and later models IIRC use variable vane turbos. The boost is controlled by varying the angle of the exhaust vanes. Quote
FLENG Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 i thought the 90 bhp was a pd engine? we learn something everyday my golf was a pd 115 engine, that used to do it.... i know the amount of boost is controlled by the variably vanes, but cant see how the vanes have anything to do with the noise it makes when you take your foot off the gas suddenly while boosting Quote
seatkid Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 [quote name='FLENG' timestamp='1295373288' post='160491'] i thought the 90 bhp was a pd engine? we learn something everyday my golf was a pd 115 engine, that used to do it.... i know the amount of boost is controlled by the variably vanes, but cant see how the vanes have anything to do with the noise it makes when you take your foot off the gas suddenly while boosting [/quote] Up to 2000, diesel engines available on the Shalaxy were either 90 or 110 bhp Tdi, rotary pump variants. 2000 onward all were PD engines including the 90bhp variant. There are no dump valves. Quote
FLENG Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) [quote name='seatkid' timestamp='1295440130' post='160533'] Up to 2000, diesel engines available on the Shalaxy were either 90 or 110 bhp Tdi, rotary pump variants. 2000 onward all were PD engines including the 90bhp variant. There are no dump valves. [/quote] yes sorry my fault i forgot this was a mk1 & 2 section of the forum, i was just thinking mk2 and i know there are no dump valves as such but you can here a faint similar noise cant you, im just describing the noise as a dump valve although its very quiet on diesels, im just thinking that could be where the noise is coming from, either that or the dual mass in my opinion. someone please tell me im not mad and in imagining noises now.. Edited January 19, 2011 by FLENG Quote
Timbo2002 Posted January 21, 2011 Report Posted January 21, 2011 Hi, Does the noise relate to turning the steering wheel? This can happen at low revs, indicating that the power steering pump is on the way out, lazy...or that the belt tensioner needs replacing which is about a Quote
Seatdriver Posted February 6, 2011 Author Report Posted February 6, 2011 Hello again, still trying to find the cause of this noise. My post appears to have gone a little off track so just to bring it back on topic. I have no noticed a second strange issue with this car of mine when it is started from cold. When idling with the clutch released the engine begins to shudder, this is directly associated with the chattering sound I can hear from the passenger side of the car. If I depress the clutch then the shudder stops, or if I leave the car in neutral and lift the revs slightly it again stops shudddering. Once the engine has been run for a few miles this shuddering doesn't happen. Now I still have this dry bearing sound I originally described, but I have now carried out many checks including once again removing the aux belt so the alternator, power steering pump etc are NOT turning and the noise is still there. I have blanked off the EGR valve hose and there is no difference. One question for someone who definately knows VW gearboxes, In neutral do all the gear shafts rotate or is there a single idler shaft? This problem is either turbo related (for the original posting noise) or the DMF/clutch going bad and the chattering I cn hear is the clutch springs being given a hard time by a shuddering DMF oh and the wife reports a very slight judder when reversing uphill. This doesn't happen when setting off forward up the same incline. Any thoughts out there? Quote
chrispb123456 Posted February 7, 2011 Report Posted February 7, 2011 [quote name='Seatdriver' timestamp='1297033748' post='161330'] Hello again, still trying to find the cause of this noise. My post appears to have gone a little off track so just to bring it back on topic. I have no noticed a second strange issue with this car of mine when it is started from cold. When idling with the clutch released the engine begins to shudder, this is directly associated with the chattering sound I can hear from the passenger side of the car. If I depress the clutch then the shudder stops, or if I leave the car in neutral and lift the revs slightly it again stops shudddering. Once the engine has been run for a few miles this shuddering doesn't happen. Now I still have this dry bearing sound I originally described, but I have now carried out many checks including once again removing the aux belt so the alternator, power steering pump etc are NOT turning and the noise is still there. I have blanked off the EGR valve hose and there is no difference. One question for someone who definately knows VW gearboxes, In neutral do all the gear shafts rotate or is there a single idler shaft? This problem is either turbo related (for the original posting noise) or the DMF/clutch going bad and the chattering I cn hear is the clutch springs being given a hard time by a shuddering DMF oh and the wife reports a very slight judder when reversing uphill. This doesn't happen when setting off forward up the same incline. Any thoughts out there? [/quote] Hi there Chattering from the gearbox may be down to simply low oil level in the box or even incorrect oil. Whiny bearing noises on acceleration but more noticeably on deceleration could be worn transmission/differential bearings Quote
markleaver Posted February 7, 2011 Report Posted February 7, 2011 Are you sure you've remembered to take the wife out of the luggage compartment? I had a similar whining until I found her in there and now its transferred to the living room Quote
Seatdriver Posted February 7, 2011 Author Report Posted February 7, 2011 Ho ho ho very amusing regarding whining BUT! This darn metallic bearing sound is still there when the AUX belt is removed and the car is [b]static[/b], it makes the noise with the clutch in or out. This clearly proves that it is not from the tensioner, alternator, power steering pump, belt or gearbox! But it could still be from the turbo or the clutch or the flywheel. BUT if I lift the revs very very slowly to 2400 rpm + then let the engine revs die it hardly makes the sound. Very suspicious that the DMF is going bad but I am going to start a new post on my second plan of attack regarding the chatter noise from the gearbox as I am mixing up two posts here. Quote
Dowdman Posted October 4, 2017 Report Posted October 4, 2017 Got same problem any one found the fault??? Quote
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