Have I Bought The Wrong Tyres For My 1.9tdi?

[rwtomkins]

My Galaxy is a Mk II, bought in late 2002. It's a 1.9TDI, 115bhp. Incredibly I have just reached the stage where I need to change the front tyres for the first time. Based on a search by my vehicle registration number on the KwikFit website, I ordered online from KwikFit a pair of Dunlop FastResponse 215/55H16 tyres. These have a load rating of 93 and are not described as reinforced or extra load. However, they are rated to carry a load of 650kg each - making a total load rating of 2600kg - and can be inflated to a maximum pressure of 52psi.

 

I have had these tyres fitted but I'm not sure whether I should have. The OE tyres were Dunlop Sport 2020 215/55H16rf and I know reinforced tyres are recommended for this vehicle. But do I really need them? The maximum gross vehicle weight of this vehicle is 2450kg, well within the rating of the tyres - and I hardly ever load the vehicle up anyway. The maximum air pressure when fully laden is 48psi so here again I'm well within the tyre spec. So where's the problem? I assume a big safety margin is built into these tyres and I'm nowhere near exceeding the specifications. But I still have that niggling concern about the reinforced thing.

 

Any thoughts?

[sparky Paul]

I'm afraid RF or XL tyres are not just recommended, they are mandatory for your tyre size. Ford specify a minimum of 95 load index in any size, and your insurance company would take a very dim view of any deviation if you had any kind of accident. An astute MOT tester is also likely to fail the tyres as not up to spec.

 

It's not simply a case of taking the GVW and dividing by four, the weight is rarely evenly distributed between the two axles. The specified tyre allows for worse possible bias towards the back tyres when carrying 7 adults and luggage.

[sparky Paul]

...and after reading your post again, I would whizz the car back to Kwik Fit and complain that they have specified and fitted the wrong tyres.

 

Out of interest, I just put my reg into the Kwik Fit website... it came up with a completely wrong tyre size, and all 91 rated to boot. Very poor.:rolleyes:

 

 

I notice the website says

 

We endeavour to make sure that this information is accurate, however it is subject to a visual inspection and confirmation of tyre size and specification.

 

They obviously didn't do the the 'visual inspection and confirmation' in your case. These registration based part locators are not always accurate, and I suppose that is forgiveable. However, if they have actually gone ahead and fitted these tyres to the car, that is a far more serious matter.

Edited November 9, 2010 by sparky Paul

[cyborg]

Driven gals with 91 on an early 1.9tdi 2.0 and 2.3 but never on 2.8 what I found Was on the 2.3 the front end was a little bouncey and didn't perform well(understatment) breaking from speed.The others performed well.

[cyborg]

Driven gals with 91 on an early 1.9tdi 2.0 and 2.3 but never on 2.8 what I found Was on the 2.3 the front end was a little bouncey and didn't perform well(understatment) breaking from speed.The others performed well.

Mind you I can see sparky paul's view also ;

 

Lets say you go on jolly to south of France overloaded with bucket and spade 26 degree heat 10 hour drive ,hit a pot hole on Les Gorges du Verdon at 60 The tyre might react like Simmie Black :rolleyes: .

 

Go with the best load you can't afford is my best advise.

 

Also make sure you have big parachutes fitted to car!

[Mirez]

It's not simply a case of taking the GVW and dividing by four, the weight is rarely evenly distributed between the two axles.

 

Nail and Head :rolleyes:

 

The loading is never as even as the simple calculation, for example it will dramatically increase during braking and cornering. To illustrate this using your own figures and making some fairly broad assumptions as well :

 

They are rated to carry a load of 650kg each or 1300KG per axel and making a total load rating of 2600kg. The maximum gross vehicle weight of this vehicle is 2450kg.

During braking as much as 40% of the vehicle weight can transfer to the front; lets call it 30% which will give us a load change of 735KG.

Therefore during a heavy brake the front axel is additionally loaded to 1960KG or 330KG outside of the rated value of these tyres - 125% of the individual tyres rated value.

 

That's not supposed to alarm or condescend and its a VERY crude calculation based on lots of assumptions and over estimates. Its also not a true representation of the load idex but its a good way to illustrate how weight can shift about.

 

Whilst not really related to the question If you have an hour (and want to get to sleep!) take a read of this article as its much better then me at explaining how forces are moving about:

http://www.ozebiz.co...ry/wttrans.html

Edited November 9, 2010 by Mirez

[rwtomkins]

You're right, guys, I hadn't considered the weight distribution thing and the effect of braking etc. I'm going to do as you recommend and get right back to KwikFit.

 

It's amazing how difficult it is to get reliable information about what tyres you need. I can't find anything anywhere that tells me what minimum specification I need for my car - not even the handbook, which simply describes the tyres already fitted.

 

Thank you, sparkyPaul and Mirez. Now I'm going to bed to dream of Dynamic Load Transfer! :rolleyes:

[Phil]

i have recently had the same, but on the fuel filled flap is a sticker that states the tyres needed and does clearly state rf (reinforced), when i brought my alhambra it had been used as a taxi with NON Reinforced tyres....???, dont ask me how that passed the 6 monthly taxi MOT test... shocking really to think that my wife and kids could have been in that with the monthly shop and the tyres give out...

i noticed it when i took it out the first time and it was like jelly on ice especially when cornering due to the sidewalls not being strong enough to stay put. i have Avon CR322 195x65xr15rf (not the Enviro model).

and to be honest they are great, stopping on ice and snow nicely last winter and perform very well in the wet., would buy again.

 

Just thought id add to the knowledge share and share another of the frightfull stories we constantly hear with garages and the like. :)

[gregers]

shouldnt the fitter have made sure before fitting the new tyres checked?or noticed that the old tyres had a different rating?

take them back,kick up a stink and demand they sort it out,pronto.

[rwtomkins]

I like my local KwikFit a lot: they are very friendly and helpful and offer very good value for money in my opinion. But although they are very good at fitting tyres, they seem to know nothing about them and haven't a clue when it comes to offering advice on tyre selection. Again, there seems to be an astonishing amount of ignorance about this very important safety component and it's very difficult to find a reliable source of information about what sort of tyres you should fit. To Phil's point, that's probably why the taxi wasn't failed at its MoT - not many people know what sort of tyres should be fitted.

 

I never noticed a sticker on the inside of the fuel filler flap. Please bear in mind that I'm having the first new tyres since buying this car in 2002 so it's plain that I don't open the fuel filler flap very often! I'll have a look later on and see if I've got a sticker.

 

BTW do reinforced tyres actually have stronger sidewalls? I have a vague memory of reading something here to the effect that "reinforced" is slightly misleading - it simply means they can safely be inflated to a higher pressure so they can bear a heavier load and it's not specifically to do with sidewall support. However it's just a vague recollection and may well be wrong.

[Phil]

i completely agree that tyre fitters "Assume" the tyres fitted are suitable, and never check any system to confirm, this is bad practice, isn't this why we take our vehicles to the "Professionals"?

 

rwtomkins, you could be right about the sidewalls not being stronger, what i meant was that due to the increased tyre pressure this in effect makes the tyre as a whole stronger including the sidewalls, meaning less sideward action on cornering :)

[rwtomkins]

rwtomkins, you could be right about the sidewalls not being stronger, what i meant was that due to the increased tyre pressure this in effect makes the tyre as a whole stronger including the sidewalls, meaning less sideward action on cornering.

 

Fair enough - makes sense to me!

 

I had a friendly chat with KwikFit today and they readily agreed to swap the tyres with just a small

[chrispb123456]

My Galaxy is a Mk II, bought in late 2002. It's a 1.9TDI, 115bhp. Incredibly I have just reached the stage where I need to change the front tyres for the first time. Based on a search by my vehicle registration number on the KwikFit website, I ordered online from KwikFit a pair of Dunlop FastResponse 215/55H16 tyres. These have a load rating of 93 and are not described as reinforced or extra load. However, they are rated to carry a load of 650kg each - making a total load rating of 2600kg - and can be inflated to a maximum pressure of 52psi.

 

I have had these tyres fitted but I'm not sure whether I should have. The OE tyres were Dunlop Sport 2020 215/55H16rf and I know reinforced tyres are recommended for this vehicle. But do I really need them? The maximum gross vehicle weight of this vehicle is 2450kg, well within the rating of the tyres - and I hardly ever load the vehicle up anyway. The maximum air pressure when fully laden is 48psi so here again I'm well within the tyre spec. So where's the problem? I assume a big safety margin is built into these tyres and I'm nowhere near exceeding the specifications. But I still have that niggling concern about the reinforced thing.

 

Any thoughts?

Hi there

Just curious how much mileage the car done in 8 years on one set of tyres :)

[sparky Paul]

I can't find anything anywhere that tells me what minimum specification I need for my car - not even the handbook, which simply describes the tyres already fitted.

 

The tyre info should be listed in the handbook, in mine there is no mention of RF or XL, but IIRC the load index is stated - and that is the critical factor.

 

Glad to hear you got sorted out, I couldn't really see any other option for KwikFit but to replace the tyres.

Edited November 11, 2010 by sparky Paul

[Phil]

while we are this subject of tyes, i am looking to replace 1 of my axles tyres, now i have 195 65 15 on currently.

below is a pic of my fuel filler cap, and as can be seen 3 tyre sizes can be fitted to mine, also note 2 are ReInforced and 1 is not ReInforced, prob due to the width to spead the load across.

as i have steel rims, im thinking i will fit the 205 60 15 on these rims (i doubt the 215's will go), Oppinions much appreciated, good or bad.

 

has anyone else got 205's on steels or even 215's??

 

Phil

 

Edited November 12, 2010 by Phil

[sparky Paul]

195/65R15 need to be reinforced, reinforced are 95 load index, while standard tyres are only 91.

 

As far as I know, the 6Jx15 rims are the same for all 15" sizes, so I reckon you should be able to fit any of these. There are very few manufacturers of reinforced 215/60R15, and standard tyres are a mixture of mostly 94, and some 95 rated - you must make sure you fit 95 rated as specified by Ford on your filler flap, or reinforced (98 rated) if you can find them.

Edited November 12, 2010 by sparky Paul

[Ivor_E_Tower]

Reinforced tyres do have reinforced sidewalls and tread. The issue of needing them is not just down to the load transfer when braking etc, but when cornering. Reinforced sidewalls mean that they will not flex as much when cornering in a "spirited" manner.... using the non-reinforced tyres then taking a sharp bend at high speed and well laden could pose a risk of extreme oversteer or the bead separating slightly from the rim, and you certainly would not want to experience a tyre going soft under this condition.

[rwtomkins]

Hi there

Just curious how much mileage the car done in 8 years on one set of tyres :lol:

 

Sorry for the delayed reaction. 23,572 on the Dunlop 2020s and the front ones were nearly down to the tyre wear blocks.I don't know if that's good, bad or middling.

[rwtomkins]

The tyre info should be listed in the handbook, in mine there is no mention of RF or XL, but IIRC the load index is stated - and that is the critical factor.

 

IIRC the handbook just says the correct tyre for this model is 215/55H16rf and there is no mention of load factor.

 

Reinforced tyres do have reinforced sidewalls and tread. The issue of needing them is not just down to the load transfer when braking etc, but when cornering. Reinforced sidewalls mean that they will not flex as much when cornering in a "spirited" manner.... using the non-reinforced tyres then taking a sharp bend at high speed and well laden could pose a risk of extreme oversteer or the bead separating slightly from the rim, and you certainly would not want to experience a tyre going soft under this condition.

 

Good lord, Ivor E Tower, are you still here??? I remember your first post on this forum when you were just a wee lad. I think I am officially the father of the forum, pre-dating you by all of four days...

 

Back on topic, your post above takes me right back to square one - have I bought the right tyres? Because the ones I now have are extra load but they are not reinforced. So unless someone wants to tell me they mean exactly the same thing, it's back to KwikFit again.

[Mirez]

So unless someone wants to tell me they mean exactly the same thing, it's back to KwikFit again.

 

One and the same :lol:

[sparky Paul]

Yes, as Mirez says, RF and XL mean the same thing - most manufacturers are gradually moving over to the XL or 'eXtra Load' terminology to save confusion with RSW (reinforced sidewall) tyres popular in the US.

 

 

IIRC the handbook just says the correct tyre for this model is 215/55H16rf and there is no mention of load factor.

My handbook definitely states 215/55R16 95H - which of course must be reinforced or 'extra load', as the standard tyre in this size is 93 rated.

 

I don't think the very early handbooks stated load index or reinforced, but it's on the sticker on the car.

 

 

have I bought the right tyres? Because the ones I now have are extra load but they are not reinforced. So unless someone wants to tell me they mean exactly the same thing, it's back to KwikFit again.

In the OP, you said that the tyres were 93 rated, and were not reinforced or extra load, so I'm a bit lost now... :lol:

 

215/55R16 93 rated is not reinforced or extra load. RF or XL tyres in this size will always be LI rated 95 or higher, usually 95 or 97.

Edited November 25, 2010 by sparky Paul

[gregers]

Good lord, Ivor E Tower, are you still here??? I remember your first post on this forum when you were just a wee lad. I think I am officially the father of the forum, pre-dating you by all of four days...

 

rwtomkins,i think your spamming the forum with the endless posts you keep doing since 2003:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[rwtomkins]

So unless someone wants to tell me they mean exactly the same thing, it's back to KwikFit again.

 

One and the same :lol:

 

Phew!

 

Sparky Paul, out of interest, I'll check the handbook and sticker tomorrow to see what info they give about tyre requirements.

 

The extra load tyres I have now aren't the ones I talked about in the OP. Somewhere later in the thread, I took your advice and changed the tyres for extra load versions! That's what I have on now. So as long as extra load and reinforced mean the same thing, all is well.

[rwtomkins]

Good lord, Ivor E Tower, are you still here??? I remember your first post on this forum when you were just a wee lad. I think I am officially the father of the forum, pre-dating you by all of four days...

 

rwtomkins,i think your spamming the forum with the endless posts you keep doing since 2003:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

Yes and I'm STILL only "advanced" while a young whippersnapper like yourself is "eternally ultimate". Where is the justice??? :lol:

[gregers]

Where is the justice??? :lol:

 

oh i think hes still with us aswell :lol: :lol:

Edited November 26, 2010 by gregers