big_kev Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 So sad to read this news article... http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article427045.ece I know people have these religious beliefs but surely they must balance them against their wellbeing. Obviously its in "the sun" and therefore may not be true, but I know from experience that this does happen. Sadly in this day and age I know doctors who have overuled a patients wishes in cases similar to this and the Hospital has been sued. If this is true it makes you wonder why the family didn't over rule her wishes and ask the doctors to give the transfusion...... it will be interesting to see what comes of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 It all comes down to the new Mental Capacity act. If the persons parents or the doctors could prove that she didn't have the mental capacity to make the decision then they could easily over rule her. Unfortunately it's not very easy to do unless they have a long-standing mental illness or impaired decision making capabilities due to substance misuse and even then it a very fine line to cross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumof4 Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 havent read the link, but what i did read on the front page, the husband and new father went with his wifes wishes.A hard thing to see watching your loved one die when a transfusion is all that may have been needed.But it is respecting their belief.as i would hope someone will for me one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insider Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 It's very sad that some people's beliefs are based on the literal meaning of text that has been translated from the original and could have had a very different meaning. Whatever divine being you believe in I'm sure none of them would intend an innocent person to die unnecessarily, but then they do say God moves in mysterious ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumof4 Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 what you also have to remember, is that people of this belief may die nearly every day around the world, but this is making headlines because it was a woman who had literally just given birth.If she hadnt, it would never of made the news.Its a money grabbing headline of a families grief and it will turn into something more because of the way its being portrayed, her family all respected her belief.It must of been heartbreaking for them to do but i think they respected her to the end. I know at the end of the day those babes wont know their mother, but they will have a loving family surrounding them..yes i know it wont replace a mothers love....but we each have to respect the different beliefs we all hold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_kev Posted November 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Yes its a very grey area this.... I wonder with the ideas going around about the NHS shunning people who smoke or are overweight might start applying the same to Religious Beliefs. The Mental Capacity Act is another debatable issue....would you class someone willing to die as being of sound mind ? Also where do you draw the line between don't help me if I am dying and assisted suicide.... This is not a dig at the Jehovah's per se, rather it is a critisicm of all religious beliefs that do not put the welfare of the individual and/or family first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_kev Posted November 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 It now appears the Husband is blaming the Hospital over his wife's death......thats nice of him ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galaxytony Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 i cant belive tha the husband is blaming the hospital all because they had a machine that recycles your own blood and didnt know how to use it i mean come on how often would they need to use it most of us would have had the transfusion and the wife signed a form for no blood to be given if he felt that way why didnt he allow blood to be given im sure that in a life threatening situation i would do everything within my power to keep my loved ones alive how do you explain to your children that you could have saved their mums live but didnt and then have the cheek to blame someone else when you could have prevented it he should be charged with manslaughter im so annoyed that im spitting feathers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insider Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 I thought I'd read that they aren't even allowed to accept transfusions of their own blood, so surely a machine to recycle your own blood be classed as this?In my opinion, they should stand by their beliefs and accept the consequences of their actions, not try to blame someone else when it all goes wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_kev Posted November 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 I think the word "compensation" may arise soon ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigjeeze Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 Firstly - provided religious beliefs don't harm anyone else or someone who isn't old enough to make an informed decision then they are fine and should be respected. If they would rather die than take blood then so be it - Only don't be upset if a court stops you doing that to a child or minor because the they would be failing in their duty of care.As for a recycling machine - that's irrelevant - there are no guarantees with medicine - you can't save all patients and you can't be equipped for every single possible situation - besides the onus here should be laid squarely at the feet of the believers in question. Nothing comes for free - everything including life must be paid for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_kev Posted November 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 Firstly - provided religious beliefs don't harm anyone else or someone who isn't old enough to make an informed decision then they are fine and should be respected. Its not just a case of being old enough they also have to be "of sound mind." Two obvious issues arise.....the patient was unconcious and therefore could not make a decision and also "of sound mind" would also be debatable because of the initial request. Also I suppose she would be harming the medical staff through the mental trauma of watching her die. And lastly I am pretty sure her religious beliefs have harmed her children who now do not have a mother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregers Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 And lastly I am pretty sure her religious beliefs have harmed her children who now do not have a mother. no!!!they will be brainwashed(soz taught)that it was gods will there mother died and probably will not be told that a blood transfusion couldve saved her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumof4 Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 careful gregers, who are we to say that their belief is wrong? that the children will be brainwashed/taught?....There are so many religions in the world today and each believes they are right and each teaches their kids that religion. Just because we who are not of that belief think that it was wrong not to give the young mum a transfusion, does not mean that we are right.If you are of that religion, then you know that you did the right thing according to that belief. I dont understand that religion myself, and knowing that a simple transfusion may have saved her, may weigh heavy on the dads soul.Imagine the inner struggle inside of him, imagine the struggle inside that family, do they have faith or do they turn their backs on their faith.They did not turn their backs on what they believed, how many in their situation could have done the same? if you were a devout christian, muslim, cathlic...could you turn your back on your faith to save a life? remember the thousands of christians who died for their faith, believeing in their god. Just because we do not understand, does not give us the right to judge what happened,Yes she died, but the family will bear that grief, and i dont think for one minute those kids will suffer as they are surrounded by a family that will love and cherish them.They may not know their mother in the flesh, but i am sure they will know of her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_kev Posted November 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 There are so many religions in the world today and each believes they are right and each teaches their kids that religion. "The root of all evil " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumof4 Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 The way i see it, everything happens for a reason,different people interpret the same thing in many different ways.Religion is always going to be a hot topic as each person from different religions interprets their own beliefs differently to someone from a different religion. ok, put it this way, my dad is a lay preacher, but do i believe in god? do i believe in the word of the bible? not all of it. Anyone can start a new religion.You can interpret the bible in so many different ways.The bible has been rewritten so many times that the very first one is like a different book altogether. but as you say BK, religion can be the root of all evil,but also just because we do not agree with a belief like this young mum did, does not mean that their teachings are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_kev Posted November 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 but as you say BK, religion can be the root of all evil Not can be, but IS ! but also just because we do not agree with a belief like this young mum did, does not mean that their teachings are wrong. It does not mean that there teachings are wrong...but they are still wrong. Anyone who believes in a "supreme being" wants their head examining.... Who would want to worship a god that inlicts the cruelty and hardships we see every day, if god did exist he would be some weird perverted sicko that should be the first one strung from a tree. I believe in the church ( or whatever ) as being a morale standard for us to follow.... None of this nanby panby claptrap about Jesus ( or whoever ) but more about the being good to others and helping your fellow man ( as in human before the pc brigade complain ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregers Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 er why do i have to be careful,this is in a debating forum,it is my opinion thats all,and as most of the posts on it seem to agree that its very sad that a mother lost her life and has left 2 babies to be brought up by there father,when as has been reported she(probably)had survived with a transfusion.yes its there choice.most if not all wars seem to start through some form of religion,now the logic in me would say ban all religons and see what devolops. 1=would the world become a more stable place?2=would it become total anarchy? who knows,religon serves a purpose to those who need it in there lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumof4 Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 no idea why i said be careful..things just keep popping out of my head at the mo.yep..all our opinions. you are right..religion does serve a purpose to those who need it in their lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigjeeze Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Don't get the two confused - Religion and the existence of a Supreme being. Religions mostly agree that there is a Supreme being or God - What they disagree on is how he /she/it wants you to live your life . You may not beleive but there are some 900m people that do. Don't dismiss it just because it doesn't work for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_kev Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) You may not beleive but there are some 900m people that do. Don't dismiss it just because it doesn't work for you. I dismiss it because I don't believe in the existence of a supreme being. People who do are either immature and still need a mother/father figure to cling on to or they are losers who just need someone to take the blame for their failings in life rather than themselves. My life has not been perfect ( who's has ! ) however I realise that this is down to decisions that I have made, some right, some wrong, or has been down to other peoples decisions ( eg muppets that voted for Labour ). At no time did I take the "easy" way out and blame it on the decision of a devine being to ease my conscience. All religion has for its basis the existence of a supreme being ( or beings ) who exist outside the law and morals that most civilised nations expect.Some religions will portray themselves as just sharing a set of common beliefs and practices but upon examination these beliefs and practices come back to the supposed will of the supreme being. In reality most of these religious beliefs and practices have been created for the personal benefit of the members of the "priesthood" ( or whatever ) rather than for any religious reason. Sorry, starting to preach... :wub: Edited November 16, 2007 by big_kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregers Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 i dont dismiss it,even though im c of e i went to a roman catholic school(infant&juniors)and was taught by nuns etc did me no harm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_kev Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Don't get me on to the subject of women in uniform ...... :wub: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_kev Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) Last Seen: Today, 08:37 PM Viewing Topic: In The News Today And I know what you were doing ... :wub: or should that be diogn ? Edited November 16, 2007 by big_kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregers Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Last Seen: Today, 08:37 PM Viewing Topic: In The News Today And I know what you were doing ... :wub: or should that be diogn ? ??????????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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