Help! Petrol Smell/poor Idle/surging/stalling 2.3

[hatter1999]

Hi all, I've a problem with my 1996 2.3 Galaxy Ghia and i'm at my wits end to try and fix it. I've searched the forums and tried the solutions I've found so far.

 

Symptoms:

 

Starts OK but then "hunts" as thought its on 3 cylinders and sometimes stalls or revs up to 3500.

When it revs to 3500 if I press the clutch it drops back to approx 1000 but sometimes then rises back up and sometimes tries to stall.

But if I don't press the clutch it goes from 3500 to about 2000 and then back up to 3500 in a cycle up and down.

On a run and when the engine is at about 3500ish while in gear, at about 70, if I reduce the accelearator pedal slightly it feels like the engine just suddenly cuts out, such is the jolt, its not a nice deccelearation feeling.

In town at low revs its very lumpy and feels like a kangaroo sometimes.

Generally it smells like its running rich when i'm in traffic or parking up etc. And only getting about 27mpg on a long run.

 

Had the plugs out and they all look a uniform colour, light tan/sand as I'd expect.

 

What I've done so far.

 

Changed the plugs, coil packs, air filter, oil, cleaned the idle control valve more than once, had a code reader connected but it shows no error code :-( Disconnecting the MAF made it worse as I recall.

 

 

HELP!! Any ideas??

[matt1003]

had some of these problems on mine ( reving up an its own cutting out etc )

changed the lamba sensor and it solved most of them

 

matt

[Steve P]

Is there a vac pipe loose / missing to the inlet manifold? It's quite hard to see back there to know what you're looking for - especially when you're looking for something that's not there!

 

When did this start, had some work been done on the car?

[hatter1999]

It all started about 3 weeks ago :-(

 

A couple of days before I'd changed the oil etc.......only took the undertray off and obv undid the oil drain pipe but that was all. Filled up with petrol a couple of days later and about 10 mins later it all started :-(....

 

tried all sorts so far and still not got to bottom of it, but funny you should mention pipes etc in the engine does seem a bit more "hissy" at the front/exhaust side of the engine towards the cam chain end but i cant locate an air leak.

[johnswlondon]

i had a similar problem once with an old volvo.

 

i know that the idle speed is electronically controlled,but on the fuel injected volvo there was a screw to raise the idle.engines contain a knock sensor which raises the idle speed to prevent damage to the engine and an anti stall valve for when the revs drop low.

 

manually raising the idle speed by turning the screw on the throttle linkage should solve the problem because the engine will no longer be hunting for the correct revs,and it costs nothing to try

[hatter1999]

Now changed the lambda, still no difference :-( really lumpy idle and when shutting the accelerator at about 4000 revs its like switching off the engine for a short second, bit like an on off switch on the throttle

[Steve P]

Can we start again with this - I really don't fully understand the symptoms.

 

Forget the clutch - that's a total red herring.

 

Your first report suggests that the engine would rev up on it's own to 3500 rpm. I really can't see this happening unless someone is pressing the throttle. Perhaps somebody else with a bit more knowledge than me can advise - does the idle speed control valve (or whatever it's called) have enough authority to rev the engine up to 3500 rpm?

 

When the lpg system on our 2.3 misbehaved it caused a backfire in the inlet manifold and blew a vac hose off. The engine ran very lumpy on petrol or gas. The cat got very hot - which gives off a smell which may be what you are describing. Tickover was all over the place (tended to stall rather than race high) and it took lots of throttle to drive the car - gutless.

 

Is it possible that you have picked up bad fuel - remember the Tesco saga a few months back? Have you used up the fuel that you bought from just before this all started and have you filled up again - prefererably from somewhere else? Have you asked the garage if anybody has had problems (although thy would probably say "no" regardless).

 

Remove the MAF and air filter top box and rubber pipe down the the inlet manifold. I would also pull the tray off under the wiper mechanism. Then get a good torch and have a look round the back for something loose / hanging off / missing.

 

Fault codes. What sort of reader did you use ( you don't need to answer that for me - I wouldn't know one from the other). But my question is "do you know that type of fault reader works on this car and also do you know that particular fault reader is actually working?". If there is a sensor that has packed up I really would have thought that it should show up.

 

Beyond that it might be a case of getting a "hometune" chap in with his van full of gear to diagnose the problem.

 

Cheers

Steve

 

PS. I have set of spark plug leads that I fit between the coil packs and spark plugs so that I can start the engine and then pull a lead off each spark plug in turn. This is very useful when trying to sort out a misfire at idle. I have had two or three coil packs fail in the years that we have had the car and I have found using these leads lets me see exactly which plug is misfiring and also shows if there is a weak spark so I know that the coil pack has failed.

Edited August 18, 2007 by Steve P

[hatter1999]

Ok, car is still revving upto about 3500 at times and stalling at others. Stalls when cold and smells as if its running rich. but the plugs are a uniform tan colour. New plugs and coils. Tested resistance and all seems ok.

 

Changed fuel filter, oil and air filter.

 

Cleaned MAF, engine runs even worse with it disconnected and also cleaned throttle housing and air temp sensor.

 

Can't see any hoses off or perished :-(

 

Changed lambda air sensor, in case it was a bad fuel issue but no difference.

 

Code reader sometimes picks up a 0171 code but only if i've been mucking around under the bonnet disconnecting the MAF etc, everyday use just shows blanks -----.

 

I'm just gettin fed up with it all but can't afford Frauds prices even to look at it as I'm sure they'll just go on a change everything and charge the earth. And from others experience that seems to not solve the prob anyhow.

 

When driving at below 2500 revs its like a kangaroo and also when shutting off the throttle slightly at over 3500 revs its like a switch on and off. :rolleyes:

[Andrew T]

The ISV sticking would certainly allow the engine to rev to 3500RPM, but in my experience would not account for the other symptoms; mine still dove smoothly

[syedorf]

hi does the code reader you used have a live data function so that you could see if lambda switching air flow switching etc high revs is a sign of intake leak but if it isnt doing it constantly then it shouldnt be it sounds more like idle speed controller to me as its rvving up n downsee if it has live data and then check the isc position sensor and see if it moves with the revs tht should eliminate that

[syedorf]

also just a thought check the egr valve at the front side of engine on the bottom left it has a vacuum lead to it this may be causing it

[hatter1999]

you are a star ;-) I've found a small split in the rubber elbow from the metal tube under the exhaust, now i just need to work out how to get to it and replacing it :o

 

any ideas for an easy fix??, short of taking the exhaust manifold off and dismantalling the front side of the engine?

[hatter1999]

hi all....just a finish to the problem if anyone has same symptoms....

 

it was the crankcase ventilation system pipe that had a small crack in it :-( made a real big difference to the engine :-( but now replaced and its all running sweetly as a nut now :-)

[bigdaddy]

Hi hatter, can you tell us where this pipe is, may help with my air leak problem

 

cheers

[DjAli1964]

Email me

you are a star ;-) I've found a small split in the rubber elbow from the metal tube under the exhaust, now i just need to work out how to get to it and replacing it <img src="http://www.fordgalaxy.org.uk/ford/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="mad.gif" />

 

any ideas for an easy fix??, short of taking the exhaust manifold off and dismantalling the front side of the engine?

any clues would be great i have exactly the same problems bad idling petrol smell revving high then dieing thanks in advance

[DjAli1964]

Email me

you are a star ;-) I've found a small split in the rubber elbow from the metal tube under the exhaust, now i just need to work out how to get to it and replacing it <img src="http://www.fordgalaxy.org.uk/ford/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="mad.gif" />

 

any ideas for an easy fix??, short of taking the exhaust manifold off and dismantalling the front side of the engine?

any clues would be great i have exactly the same problems bad idling petrol smell revving high then dieing thanks in advance