Coolant Loss

[lordhawes]

Hi, can any one give me some clues where to look as my coolant is disapearing some where.Cant see any leakages externaly.My galaxy is a 2.0l petrol n regy.The only problem i seem to hav with it is that when you start car up from cold it can miss fire for about 20 seconds or so then clears.A freind seems to think if the head gasket has gone then the water might be gettin fired away with the petrol.But i have checked my oil and it seems to be fine no water getting in to the oil.Could he be right in saying this and that could cause the miss fire as well.??Is it a big job to renew head gasket as chain driven.??

[adie_baby]

I'm afraid your friend is right.

Water does not need to enter the oil to indicate head gasket failure, indeed very often it leaks into the combustion chamber and gets burnt off that way.

It could be caused by head gasket, cracked cylinder head or block.

As a start I would recommend "K-Seal" it is a liquid that you pour into the coolant and allegedly ! seals the leak, whether crack or gasket see http://www.kalimex.co.uk/section.html?secp...04.&pgid=17

Contact your local Unipart or Partco Autoparts, as they sell it.

 

Good Luck

 

Ade :P

[turk90210]

Well I can recommend K-Seal. Have used it a few times for different people (cheapskates mainly) when they couldn't afford a proper repair and was suprised by the sucess of it.

If you are limited on tools I would suggest a good run to pressurize the cooling system then leave overnight, if the head or anything is leaking coolant into the cylinders it can seep in overnight. Then before you start the car take out the plugs and try to look inside, if you cant see inside the cylinders place some kitchen roll or similar over the plug holes then get someone to turn it over and observe what comes out. if it is water a thorough strip down would be needed unless you try the K-Seal

NOTE OF CAUTION

make sure the ignition system is disconnected and if poss the fuel pump aswell

[wood73]

if water is seeping into cylinders then compression is leaking into water, causing unusally high pressure into the cooling system.

usia rag feel the radiator hose when enginge is running, if its rock hard then open the water bottle when cold an start the engine, watch for water overflowing or lots of bubbles if so then it the head gasket.

[dipsomaniac]

wood73 - won't coolant overflow normally if engine is running with expansion cap removed? Edited June 1, 2007 by dipsomaniac

[Scorpiorefugee]

Just another possibility but much about the same. Is the 2L petrol unit similar to that used in the Scorpio. If so, ot is common for a core plug to start to leak in the cylinder head with much the same results. I found leaving the radiator cap off while standing helped but in the end mine just had to go. The repair is much about the same as for a gasket but you do need to be aware of the possibility otherwise I suppose a new gasket won't necesserily fix it.

[jkspoff]

Arhhhhhh, just been caravanning for the very first time, not had any issues with the Gal until I started towing yesterday. After about 10 miles of motorway cruising the temp gauge shot up to 130, and STOP flashed on and off with audible warning and CHECK COOLANT. I checked the level and it seemed ok, topped it up and continued on my way after it went back to temperature 90 level. Then happened again, anyone any ideas ?? Head gasket ? or maybe coolant problem ? Please HELP !

[Scorpiorefugee]

Sounds a bit familair. Could well be the water pump has shed it's impeller. Typical symptoms are it will be ok if you cruise at a stady 50 or even just at standstill at tickover. As soon as you put any load on it overheats. You can continue at low speed and use your heater to keep the engine cool but watch the temp gauge. If you don't get it fixed you may wreck your head gasket, that will be seen to be the cause of the problem and, Hey Presto, several

[jkspoff]

Thats excellent advice, you have described exactly what it was doing, as soon as I got over 50mph with caravan the temp gauge started to creep up, especially up hills, I will get the water pump checked tomorrow, is it a straight forward job to replace it, does all the coolant need draining etc first. Thanks. Edited June 3, 2007 by jkspoff

[jkspoff]

OK, garage has managed to replace the water pump, they don't seem to think that there is anything wrong with it though, impellar still in place, its cost Edited June 4, 2007 by jkspoff

[Scorpiorefugee]

Sorry if you've spent on this and not got a result. My local garage now replaces the water pump as standard with the cam belt 'cos it is so common. The symptoms do seem to match exactly so you may be in the right area.Did they give you the old one?

 

Re the thermostat. If it is stabilising at all, and it seems to be, it still points to restricted circulation.

 

Whatever you've spent so far is an investment in the future so it shouldn't be all bad. I can't comment on the thermostat because of late I've come to trust my garage so much I just let them get on with it.

 

Are you sure you still have the problem?

 

Ron.

[Guest elijah]

Hi,

ive just bought a 2.8 4x4 ghia and i noticed the coolant loss.After reading all the posts about coolant loss it seems people think they have found the cause only to find the problem re-emerges.My mechanic said it could be the waterpump,but on visibly inspecting it there were no signs of a leak.i have a theory that when the engine heats up the excess build up of pressure in the coolant escapes through the filler cap as steam/gas.Have people noted how long it takes for the coolant level to go down?,i 've waited a week at max but after that i dont know whether the coolant level goes down any further.

[jkspoff]

Sorry if you've spent on this and not got a result. My local garage now replaces the water pump as standard with the cam belt 'cos it is so common. The symptoms do seem to match exactly so you may be in the right area.Did they give you the old one?

 

Re the thermostat. If it is stabilising at all, and it seems to be, it still points to restricted circulation.

 

Whatever you've spent so far is an investment in the future so it shouldn't be all bad. I can't comment on the thermostat because of late I've come to trust my garage so much I just let them get on with it.

 

Are you sure you still have the problem?

 

Ron.

 

Hi, yes I believe the amount spent so far will indeed be worth it for the future, the water pump and all coolant fluid and cam belt and tensioner have all been replaced for around

Edited June 4, 2007 by jkspoff

[Scorpiorefugee]

Sounds like you got a good deal. Let's just hope it's fixed now because nothing else really makes much sense. I have heard of gasket failure but I think with these symptoms that is probably a result not a cause.

 

Ron

[jkspoff]

Well, fingers crossed, collected car today, the caravan will be having a trip out tomorrow for a full engine load test run to see if it still overheats.

One thing I am still not sure about is the coolant expansion tank, it doesn't show any water until the cap is removed then it goes up to the perfect level of MAX with a rush of air, is this normal ?

Edited June 9, 2007 by jkspoff

[jkspoff]

ARRRRHHHHHHH, being out with caravan and Gal still overheating, its had a new thermostat and water pump. The coolant expansion tank is now filling to the top and then leaking out (message appears STOP, coolant), any ideas ? Should the expansion tank be filling right up ? and should it be leaking out to prevent over pressure ? Anyone, please, HELP !! I've had enough now ! :rolleyes:

[Scorpiorefugee]

I'm sorry to hear you've still got problems and beginning to feel guilty about suggesting water pump in the first place. I have to say that I felt less than confident once you said that the pump appeared to be OK.

 

Cetainly, the symptoms still match mine when mine went and it is a common problem. It might be worth looking for a similar cause. Does the radiator get hot. Silly thought - is the auxilliary heater running all the time. What's the fuel consumption like.

Have you had anything else done that could be linked to the problem - apart from the remapping. Is there any possibility of a blockage in the cooling system - kinked pipe or something.

 

Does the header tank flood before it overheats? if it does - could be the dreaded head gasket - again common I'm told. The difficulty here is that we do not always get the full story, either from the symptoms, cause or solution.

 

It must be somthing odd because the engine itself is normally very efficient when it's running correctly, hence the ability to continue to be usable with a duff water pump. There is probably a clue somewhere but it's a matter of seeing it for what it is.

 

Actually, I'm a bit suprised that others have not come in on this but it does seem a bit quiet at the moment.

 

Just had a thought - do the cooling fans come on normally or does the glow plug light stay on for an excessive time (more than 1 sec this weather). there are two temperature senders and the one that is used for the temperature gauge is not the one used for other control issues such as fans and glow plugs. Not sure about the later version

 

I hope you can get it fixed soon. It is a bit of a liability with the caravan involved. I am sure that you know better than to continue to run it once it has overheated but I am saying it anyway.

Edited June 10, 2007 by Scorpiorefugee

[jkspoff]

Thanks Scorpio, its now really doing my head in. Got the caravan and can't use it, I took it out on my own today just in case it overheated and the wife got stressed, and low and behold it did exactly as before, fortunately on my own so waited for it to cool down each time. I don't blame you for suggesting the water pump as that was exactly what the garage thought it was too and the thermostat. Everything appears to be doing exactly what it is supposed to do. The header tank does not flood before it overheats, there doesn't appear to be any kinks in the pipes, the aux heater is not running, fuel consumption is average for pulling a caravan and 40+ when not pulling it, the fans are coming on as they should etc, I along with the garage are totally puzzled now. Not sure how to check for blockage in cooling system.

Should the header tank be filling and leaking when the overheating occurs ?

If it was the head gasket wouldn't it be overheating all the time and not just under load ?

I have not left it running when overheating 130+ (over red line), then cools to 90 after about 5 minutes.

[Scorpiorefugee]

I'm frsh out of ideas i'm afraid. Head gaskets can produce all sorts of results but usually they blow gas into the system which can force water out and then you get overheating 'cos the water is displaced by gas.

 

As far as cooling down, it can help if you leave the engine ticking over and put the heater on full and open the widows :rolleyes: .

 

You didn't say if the radiator was getting hot but I assume it is.

 

I'm assuming it didn't start immediately after having the engine remapped. Just another thought - the radiator air flow may be blocked. When the fans start as it overheats, is the air flow from the radiator hot?

 

Clutching at straws here but therehas to be a logical answer.

[jkspoff]

Thanks for the ideas as to what it can be Scorpio, I tried the heater on full and windows open and it didn't seem to make much difference to the time it takes to cool, the radiator is getting very hot, its been fine since remapping over a year ago, never had any issues with it since, how do I check to see if the radiator air flow is blocked ? I now have it booked in with main dealer for a

[Smilge]

JK ...sounds to me you have an air leak somewhere. In your case and now you have booked it in, a coolant system pressure check will find the problem whether it be a porous hose or the head gasket. You mentioned the expansion tank overflowing .... is that when you remove the cap? It will anyway when the engine's at operating temp. Hopefully the dealers will find the problem matey.

[jkspoff]

The expansion tank seems to be leaking out when its full and bubbling, and pours out if you release the cap. There doesn't appear to be any leaks anywhere else in the system though but I will mention a 'coolant system pressure check' when I take it in, hopefully it will be something like that, if it is an air or coolant leak I will have to have a few words with the garage who fitted all the other bits to it. :rolleyes:

[Smilge]

The expansion tank seems to be leaking out when its full and bubbling, and pours out if you release the cap. There doesn't appear to be any leaks anywhere else in the system though but I will mention a 'coolant system pressure check' when I take it in, hopefully it will be something like that, if it is an air or coolant leak I will have to have a few words with the garage who fitted all the other bits to it. :16:

 

Just have a quick look at the seal in the expansion cap matey before you take it .... I've known the cap to cause similar problems.

[jkspoff]

Got the cap in my hand, what am I looking for, any particular issues, there appears to be a black section inside it with a pressure section as per photo, does the photo look the same as yours, or is there anything a miss ? :16:

Edited June 11, 2007 by jkspoff

[Scorpiorefugee]

Another silly thought. I had this once 30 years ago and it turned out that the system wasn't overheating at all. All of the symptoms associated with water bubbling out etc are normal so, could it just be the temperature sender unit?

 

I know! I said it was a silly thought. :16: :16: :blink:

 

As far as checking the air flow through the rad is concerned, when the fans cut in, do you get a blast of hot air fron them. It is just possible that something is blocking the front of the Rad.

 

Can you get your hands on a contact temperature indicator to press on to the head somewhere to check the true temperature.

 

I once drove 50 miles in scorching weather with the heater full on only to find out that the engine temperature sender had gone faulty. :16:

Edited June 11, 2007 by Scorpiorefugee