Who Wants To Confirm What I'm Thinking?

[asp383]

'98/r galaxy 1.9tdi.

 

the car haas been fine up until last few weeks ago.

 

car had been unused for 2 months due to not beinag able to drive after breaking my arm. removed battery, checked electrolyte & put on charge for just over 24hrs, started & drove fine over christmas/new year, even when not used for about 3/4 days.

 

then a few weeks ago, it gradually went from starting almost instantly, to really struggling, almost as though 1 cylinder at a time was catching, some white smoke (not normal), but once running, drove fine & would restart fine if warm.

 

checked glow plugs, 3x tested open circuit, so replaced all 4 (kept good 1 back for testing), 10v supply.

 

battery was starting to struggle, so replaced with new & changed the fuel filter.

 

still struggling to start,but would restart ok.

 

car was running a good hour on errands before popping into town for 2/3 hours satuday, wouldn't start when wanting to come home. didn't want to risk flattening the battery, so called out breakdown, he disconnected the inlet pipe & sprayed a little brake cleaner into manifold as i turned it over ... fired up straight away & ran fine. he seemed to think possible low fuel pressure (this was 1st time it hadn't started after turning over).

 

plugged my computer in (snap-on scanner) to see what fault codes it threw up:

65535 - ecu defective

553 - maf sensor - g70 short with power

cleared faults started engine & ran about 5 minutes, turned off & rechecked fault codes:

553 - maf sensor - g70 short with power. cleared faults.

 

didn't want to start up, so squirted some brake cleaner into manifold & it fired up. left scanner connected & showing live data. all readings appeared ok, accept for maf sensor:

idle (903rpm), maf required 280mg/s

                       maf actual     550mg/s

2100rpm, maf required 320mg/s

                maf actual     550mg/s

 

spoke to a technician at my local ford main dealer, who said the maf sensor would make starting hard, hot or cold. i'd also checked on here for starting problems & looked like maf sensor was likely culprit.

 

having to use sniff to start the car (i know they can get addicted to it, but not this quick).

 

got my autodata books out of my garage resterday, so i knew which pins to check, as i wanted to be sure whether a fault was with the wiring or maf sensor. i also noticed for the 1st time, if cruising, sometimes when i applied gentle throttle, i had no response, even when going to the floor, then after a while, it would jerk into life & pick up, dropping a gear was fine, as was stabbing at the throttle. now got slight white smoke when on throttle ... new this weekend

 

had another look this morning:

all 4x glow plugs ok & 10v feed.

discnnected maf sensor to check pins (autodata book only lists under vw sharan & on my ford, pin 1 isn't used)

pin 1-earth - not used

pin 2-earth - 12.5v

pin 3-earth - 0v

pin 4-earth - 5v

pin 5-earth - 0v

pins 2-3 - 12.5v

pins 2-4 - 7.5v

pins 2-5 - 12.5v

pins 3-4 - 5v

pins 3-5 - 0v

pins 4-5 - 12v

book says (for vw) pin 3/earth - batt. v, pin 1/earth - 5v, pins 3/5 - batt.eart, pins 1/5 - 5v.

 

rechecked fault codes:

65535 - ecu defective

553 - maf sensor - g70 short with power - error intermittent

cleared faults, tried starting, no fault codes showing yet.

 

have to do some running around tomorrow, so will plug my scanner in, keep an eyer on live dater & fault codes.

 

i don't want to spend uneccissary money on the car & looks like the maf sensor needs replacing, but if the ecu is on it's way out, then car will be a scrapper ... hoping the 65535 code is just due to it not running properly.

 

i hate all this modern electronics on engines & i'm more of an old school (non ecu) mechanic, so any other pointers would be very much appreciated.

[a18nkd]

hi i have a 98 galaxy s reg and when i had problems with my turbo and MAP sensor (or the pipe leading to it) mine was put on a snap-on scanner and it also said ECU defective/intermittent had these cleared sorted the turbo out and MAP sensor and all is well now so maybe the ecu fault is something to do with the fault your having, It has been nearly a year since this has been done and i would get it sorted and go from there

[seatkid]

Dont worry about the 65535 "ecu fault" - this is a red herring - 65535 happens to be (-1) or hex code 0xffff or programmers language for "dont know"

 

It actually means there is some fault, but the ECU cant map it to its to a standard fault as it might be caused by several things - in my case that fault came up when the little fan in the cc unit had clogged up and wasnt turning...

 

The MAF sensor fault is either a wiring/connector fault or the MAF sensor is kaput (the output is jammed high) - try disconnecting the MAF sensor connector - the engine should start and run albeit with low power (takes ages to get up to 60-70mph) at least that will eliminate the MAF sensor as the cause of the starting problem.

 

Check the fuel T piece that goes into the fuel filter has one (some have two) O rings fitted. These O rings can drop off or get left behind in the old filter when changing the fuel filter, and in fact should be changed whenever the filter is changed. Without them, air gets drawn into the air filter when stood, (fuel leaks back to tank) making starting difficult..

[asp383]

Cheers for that, I think I'll try the MAF sensor then, just got to wait until next week to get it & hope that's it.

 

Don't think I'll be able to justify spending too much more on it though. 

 

It takes ages to get to 60! I know it's not the most high performance diesel, but you wouldn't expect it to take best part of a mile! 

 

Unplugging the MAF sensor made no difference with starting, not tried driving it disconnected though, may try that tomorrow if I get the chance.

 

The new filter had new "o"rings with it, but it was being awkward to start before changing the filter.

Edited January 28, 2013 by asp383

[asp383]

Had to use the car today, needed quick shirt of sniff & fired up immediately, bit of whit smoke. Seemed to run ok.

 

dropped our eldest at school, then to a couple of places in town... All ok.

 

Had to go to the next town for some bits, main road has roadworks & just to add to things, an accident, so we went the scenic route. All ok at 1st, probably done about 5 miles (1 of motorway, 1 of 30mph through a village, rest 40, 50, 60mph a/bashful roads), then it suffered the loss of power, even dropping a gear, didn't work. Luckily,  I was able to pull into a bus stop, engine revved fine, but smoked, pulled away ok, but with smoke when accelerating.  This happened several times in the next few miles. 

 

In the town, power dropped off again, but dipping clutch & stabbing throttle or dropping gear sorted it, but smoked when on throttle for a while.

 

Was fine on the dual carriageway back, even at 50-60.

 

I'm guessing loss of power is it going into limp mode? But it then clears itself without having to restart.

 

It's not burning oil,  at least no worse than for the last 3 years.

 

I may unplug the MAF sensor & see how it drives tomorrow, can take it on a loop with 30, 40, 70, 50 40, 30 limits.

[sparky Paul]

Sounds like it could well be MAF sensor, or associated wiring as seatkid says.

 

If you are buying a replacement, don't waste your money on a cheap MAF sensor off eBay, they are poor quality and can give all sorts of problems. If you want cheap, you are better off with a good secondhand unit.

Edited January 29, 2013 by sparky Paul

[asp383]

I'm getting it from my preferred motor factor when I get paid for £54+vat ... £70 cheaper than main dealer & usually price match or better.

 

Very rarely buy parts via ebay, you don't always know where the cheap parts are from (often poor quality far eastern copy) & can cost more to return if faulty.

[sparky Paul]

Very rarely buy parts via ebay, you don't always know where the cheap parts are from (often poor quality far eastern copy) & can cost more to return if faulty.

 

I've had some good branded parts from eBay, but even then you have to have your wits about you as there are fakes out there.

 

The MAF sensors are a particular problem, the cheap ones are very poor and often fail again with 6 months, if they work properly in the first place. If you are buying from a trusted local motor factor, at least you can take it back if it does go bad.

[asp383]

I've had some good branded parts from eBay, but even then you have to have your wits about you as there are fakes out there.

 

The MAF sensors are a particular problem, the cheap ones are very poor and often fail again with 6 months, if they work properly in the first place. If you are buying from a trusted local motor factor, at least you can take it back if it does go bad.

 

i've bought things like exhaust systems, headlights & other sugh items, but they weren't urgent ... knew they'd be needed for mot, so didn't mind waiting for them to come through the post. unfortunately, there's too many fakes on ebay & usually from the far east. there was a big thing about msd ignition units from china, claimed to be produced under licence in the same factory, but all had same serial number with inferior electronics inside (msd produce their own products in their only factory based un usa), a number of rifle scopes are fakes, with some pretty obvious differences & same with car parts.

 

i've been using this particular motor factor for 20 years (the company i did my apprenticeship with used them & would only use reliable sources), over that time, the longest i've had to wait for a part is 24hrs & that was special order. if in stock at another depot, they'll have it ready for afternoon collerction if ordered before midday, or following morning if ordered after midday & they'll always call to let you know it's arrived. on the rare occasion they've supplied the wrong part, they'll exchange without question, if correct part is cheaper, they'll refund the difference & if correct part is more expensive, they won't add the difference.

 

it's not very often i'll go to breakers yards either, they've got smart over the years & some parts are nearly as expensive as motor factors, but why pay 10% less for a used part without any warranty or gaurantee, when for the extra 10%, you can buy new with warranty/gaurantee. i'd never buy anything related to brakes, steering, suspension or sensors from them, but it's more like what i'd buy from ebay if i do.

[asp383]

latest update:

 

car not used for a week (waited for wages), picked up the new maf sensor today & thought while at motor factor, i'll replace the air filter as a precaution.

 

fitted both & connected my computer (snap-on mt2500 scanner) to clear fault codes (00553' mas airflow sensor -g70 short with power - error occurs intermittent & 65535 ecu malfunction).

 

still a struggle to start, with lots of smoke out exhaust. had to give a quick spray of sniff to start.

 

gave it a few minutes & checked for fault codes ... none present.

 

switched to live data & noted it all down, at adle & 2000rpm:

 

injection quantity:

engine speed (rpm) ............ 903 ..... 2000

injection qty (mg/s) .............. 4.1 ...... 4.7

slide valve sensor (v) .......... 1.400 .. 1.340

coolant temp (*c) .................. 33 ....... 62

idle speed control:

engine speed (rpm) .............. 903 ..... 2000

throttle pedal pos (%) ........... 0.0 ...... 16.0

coolant temp (*c) .................. 36 ....... 63

idle switch closed .................. yes ...... no

exhaust gas recirculation:

engine speed (rpm) ............... 903 ..... 2000

maf (desired) (mg/s) .............. 280 ..... 300

maf (actual) (mg/s) ................ 450 ..... 300

duty cycle egr valave (%) ...... 4 ......... 68

start of delivery:

engine speed ......................... 903 ..... 2000

start of delivery (desired %) ... 1.7 ..... 4.1

start of delivery (actual %) ..... 1.7 ..... 4.6

dc start of delivery valve (%) .. 80 ...... 76

start conditions:

engine speed (rpm) ................ 903 .... 2000

start quantity (mg/s) ............... 29.0 ... 29.0

start of delivery (*) ................. 1.9 ...... 4.1

coolant temp (*c) ................... 43 ....... 65

temperatures:

fuel temp (*c) ......................... 16 ....... 30

intake temp (*c) ...................... 9 ......... 13

coolant temp(*c) ..................... 45 ....... 65

injected quantity limitation:

engine speed (rpm) ................ 903 ..... 2000

inj. qty (driver) (mg/s) ............. 0.0 ...... 4.3

inj. qty (torque) (mg/s) ............ 23.1 .... 34.7

inj. qty (smoke) mg/s) ............. 25.5 .... 12.9

air quantities:

maf (mg/s) .............................. 455 ..... 290

barometric preesure (mbar) ... 1009 ... 1020

boost pressure (mbar) ............ 989 .... 1030

throttle position (%) ................. 0.0 ...... 14.0

control turbo pressure:

engine speed (rpm) .................. 903 ..... 2000

boost pressure (desired mbar) . 958 ..... 1020

boost pressure (actrual mbar) .. 989 ..... 1030

duty cycle waste gate valve (%) 91 ....... 90

glow system:

glow time (s) ............................. 2.44 .... 2.44

batteruy (v) ............................... 14.4 .... 14.4

coolant temp (*c) ...................... 51 ....... 66

idling smooth running control:

inj. diff cyl 1 to average (mg/s) .. 0.37 ... 0.37

inj. diff cyl 2 to average (mg/s) .. 0.14 ... 0.00

inj. diff cyl 3 to average (mg/s) .. 0.40 ... 0.42

inj. diff cyl 4 to average (mg/s) .. 0.11 ... 0.02

fuel consumption:

engine speed (rpm) .................... 903 .... 2000

injection qty (actual) (mg/s) ........ 3.3 ..... 4.3

fuel consumption (l/h) ................. 0.39 ... 1.17

injection qty (driver) (mg/s) ......... 0.0 ..... 4.3

auxillary heating:

alternator load (%) ...................... 0 ......... 0

battery (v) .................................... 14.4 .... 14.4

relay heater high .......................... off ....... off

relay heater low ........................... off ....... off

aux heating witch off due to:

       coolant air temp sns defect .. no

       engine cranked in last 10s .... no

       engine speed <750rpm ......... no

       battery below 9v .................... no

       alternator defect .................... no

       coolant temp>70*c ................ no

       air temp >5*c ......................... no

vehicle speed:

speed (mph) ................................. 0

injection control:

slide valve sensor (min v) ............. 0.720 .... 0.720

slide valve sensor (max v) ............ 0.000 .... 0.000

 

turned engine off, waited approx 1 minute & attempted to restart ... turned over ok, but struggled to fire up, eventually fired up (with smoke) & took round block.

 

acceloration felt better & maf readings are better ... actual is moving, so old maf sensor was defective.

 

tried to replicate loss of power by lifting off throttle for 50 yards & reapplying, all ok until i got to a roundabout, where i lost power (didn't stall), dropped from 4th to 3rd, still not picking up, dropped to 2nd, still no response, eventually picked up, but lots of smokle out exhaust, soon cleared as i got up to speed, was fine last 1/2 mile home.

 

rechecked for fault codes ... 65535 - ecu defective.

 

i'm presuming the loss of power was dropping into limp mode? but i don't think that would explain the smoke?

 

i couldn't communicate with the fuel pump, so don't know if there's a problem there, ecu or something else. once it starts with just a quick spray of sniff, it's idling fine, picks up throttle fine, no sign of air in system. it's just starting it struggles with, even when warmed up.

 

i'm now thinking ecu, fuel pump related or injectors, which means that as far as i'm concerned, it's a non economical repair ... unless there's anything else to check?

 

any further tips or hints guys would be much appreciated.

thanks

Edited February 8, 2013 by asp383

[sparky Paul]

It does sound like the MAF was faulty, as you are now getting a response from it.

 

Is the MAF you fitted a genuine part, or an aftermarket one? I know I said this earlier, but cheap MAF sensors are a disaster. They can appear to be working, but fail to give the proper feedback to the ECU.

[chrispb123456]

Think I'd be inclined to check cam belt and timing as white smoke could well be retarded timing.

[asp383]

MAF sensor is lucas & same part #on body as original.

 

It's only on start up & when it looses power that it smokes, rest of the time, it's fine & runs spot on when it's working... Even better in fact after the new MAF sensor, but will try checking timing

 

Thanks

[chrispb123456]

MAF sensor is lucas & same part #on body as original.

 

It's only on start up & when it looses power that it smokes, rest of the time, it's fine & runs spot on when it's working... Even better in fact after the new MAF sensor, but will try checking timing

 

Thanks

Lucas!! that doesn't sound like original, they are usually Bosch or pierburg

[asp383]

Lucas!! that doesn't sound like original, they are usually Bosch or pierburg

 

couldn't see manufacturer on the old maf sensor, but as part number on body was same & i'm getting radings from it now, i'm happy. never had problems in the past with lucas parts, so have confidence. i know ford like their bosch products, i was brought up on them & did my apprenticeship with mainly ford.

 

i would have been suspicious if it had been some strange chinese unbranded part though.

 

the loss of power only seems to occure when i'm cruising/low throttle & then try to accelorate, or if i lift off (such as coming up to a roundabout) & keeping it in gear, try to acelorate away & it's always accompanied by smoke, as soon as power comes back, the smoke clears very quickly. i know it's not down to rpm's dropping too low for gear, as i've even tried it in 3rd at 3000rpm, letting it drop to 1500-2000rpm & trying to accelorate.

 

beginning to think possibly something mechanical now, as opposed to electrical/sensor as the readings from the live data appear to be doing something & could explain the ecu fault code ... registering a fault, but unable to determin????

[sparky Paul]

couldn't see manufacturer on the old maf sensor, but as part number on body was same & i'm getting radings from it now, i'm happy. never had problems in the past with lucas parts, so have confidence.

 

 

I am still suspicious of the MAF. From what you say, it does seem that the original MAF was faulty, and at first I would work on the theory that there was only one fault present, apart from the glow plugs. It's certainly not impossible that you have have multiple issues, but it has to be less than probable.

 

I'm afraid that getting readings from the MAF means very little, it may still not be working correctly. Lucas are now just another aftermarket brand and source sensors from various manufacturers, whilst this is not normally a problem, MAFs are a different kettle of fish. A quick google and I found this snippet on another forum...

 

I have been told that the Lucas should work, but I tried three of them before I finally got a Bosch MAF and fixed my problems.

 

 

If the MAF isn't at fault, there's a lot of things that could cause the problem you describe, from the low fuel pressure suspected by the recovery man, to low compression on one or more cylinders, timing, faulty injector, injector pump, fuel starvation, etc., etc.. The only way to diagnose is to see what VAG-COM shows up first, see if there are any clues there. Then start doing some physical tests... compression test might be a start.

Edited February 10, 2013 by sparky Paul

[asp383]

further update:

 

checked timing: all timing marks line up/able to get locking kit in place without any problems.

 

Doesn't appear to have any issues with vacuum hoses, intercooler, pipes or hoses.

 

Had a friend "borrow" a genuine part  MAF sensor that he had ordered for a customers car which I tried: getting same readings as the lucas unit & fault not rectified while trying to start & drive, refitted lucas MAF sensor

 

Still got to look at injector pump pressure injectors & turbo.

 

Diagnosed & rectified faults so far: battery, MAF sensor & glow plugs.

[asp383]

possible diagnosis ...

 

suddenly remembered when i worked for jcb, there was a diesel specialist company next door (used them enough for cleaning/testing injectors & rebuilding pumps etc), gave them a call, spoke to the manager (remembered his name after 10 years), described the symptoms, what i've done, what the computer has said etc & what things other than the esos (fuel solenoid on pump) i can check myself.

 

he advised checking the little valve next to the fuel inlet union on the pump (the top has 2 flat sides with slightly rounded ends), use a 10mm open end spanner to undo & check the internals are still in place as these have a tendancy to fall out & reduce internal pump pressure, it just needs knocking back in ... upon checking, the internal locating pin was partially out, so knocked back in & refitted ... sounded better ... as though it was wanting to start, but not quite there.

 

got it started on sniff & kept it running on that, as i sprayed more direclty into the manifold, i noticed diesel squirting from the top cover (the cover the fuel return banjo screws into), looked like it was coming from the gasket between the top cover & body.

 

i suspect the reason i hadn't noticed the leak before is that a) low internal pump pressure caused by the valve internals almost fallen out & b) i've been working by myself & not being able to rev the engine while looking at the fuel system, but by squirting sniff into the engine to increase rpm's & having knocked the valve internals back in (upping the internal fuel pressure), i've finally been able to see a problem at the pump ... even after checking previusly, i suspect that by the time i've got to a position to look at the fuel system, any leaked fuel has evaporated off or just looking like a part of the engine grime.

 

just waiting to hear back from the diesel garage to see if they can supply an overhaul kit inc gaskets & where to get a socket for the triangular bolt head on top of the pump to remove the cover.

[asp383]

looks like i've got to take it in, as the triangular socket is only available to authorised bosch agents, so got to wait a couple of weeks & get it down to the garage & hope that sorts it ... shouldn't be more than £40 to sort ... but that will be the last i spend on it

[sparky Paul]

Sounds like a good outcome potentially, I hope that fixes it.

 

Good bit of info for future reference too, for those with diesels.

[asp383]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed this will be the fix. If it doesn't fix it, then luckily my brother lives just round the corner from the bosch garage, so I could either crash at his, or get him to tow me home.

 

It's certainly been inconvenient without it... Dread to think how much it's cost in bus & taxi fares on top of what it's cost for parts.

[asp383]

Latest update:

 

Was booked into the bosch garage last month, called race for home start & said where I wanted the car to go to if couldn't be started, but because the car is at home, they would only take it 10 miles, despite having roadside, home start & national recovery, they wanted an extra £132 to take it the extra 25 miles to the garage, so after 3 hours on the phone over 2 days, I told them to screw the policy & joined aa. Had to wait for the paperwork, then gave it a week or so & called them out wednesday, having already booked it into the garage.

 

It was recovered without issue, took about 15 minutes to remove the to identify the leak, remove the top cover, replace the seal, refit & bleed... Leak fixed, but still didn't want to start. Started on sniff & ran fine, although some white smoke. They seem to think it's timing related, rather than anything with the pump, so are stripping the front down to check the woodruff key & keyway to see if either is worn or key is broken. 

 

Although they spent over 1 hour on it, they only charged £13 for replacing the seal (I settled up for that bit there & then) & if it is the key or keyway, I'll go ahead with the repair & new cambelt while it's apart (also in case diesel leaked onto it), I'll also try claiming the repair costs back from aa as I've got an add on with my cover that pays up to £500 of the repair, I have to pay 1st £35 & anything over the £500, but with an older car, it's worth it

[asp383]

Got call from the rage, the woodruff key & pulley were worn, replaced both + cam belt & back together. Picked up today & it's driving better than I've ever known it to... It actually accelerates. In 5th from 40 going uphill now!

 

 

For no other problems with it, I may well keep it for a bit longer

[Olley]

Just read through this thread, I'm having a not too dissimilar issue with my 1.9 r(98) galaxy

out of curiosity what was the mileage on yours when all this started? 

[viperclive]

Check the date Olly