Leak Or Not To Leak?

[Steve S.]

Hi Folks,

Hope you are all enjoying the bank holiday. I've discovered a pool of "wet" underneath the Galaxy. It's coming off the front of the clutch housing about 1/2 way up the engine block on the rhs facing the car. Can anyone tell me if this is where the air/con vents to, or have I a bigger problem? It's not the radiator as this is fairly new. I've just been for a short run and apparently no leak but it did drip all night. No significant coolant loss although it does need a small amount every now and then.It's a V6 by the way.

Thanks in anticipation,

Steve S.

[bigdaddy]

I dont know if you have a leak, but in the handbook it says u can have a small pool of water under the car in the mornig,,,this is condensation from the a/c system,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :D

[NikpV]

Would expect some water from evaporator ( I think thats where it would form) - surprising that it dripped all night though

[NikpV]

small pool of water under the car in the mornig

 

I bow to fords superior knowledge :D :D :D

 

thanx BD

[Steve S.]

Hmmm....!

Anyway, I've just spent a happy investigative 1/2 hour under the vehicle...all does not seem well however....it's leaking again and its definately coolant...it's blue. It seems to emanate from a point on the block/flywheel housing joint three flange bolts up from the sump/block joint, about level with the top of the starter motor. I can't see any hoses up there although it's pretty difficult to see much anyway..lots of wires and connectors etc. I can't think what else is up there that could leak.. apart from core plugs??... head gasket??. Anyone have intimate knowledge of this area?...Begining to have that expensive feeling! Oh shi......!

Anyway, anyone got any other ideas, all gratefully accepted!

Steve S.

[danyoda1]

its probably the water pump?

 

there are two on the v6 - 1 is mechanical and runs off the pulleys where the alternator is and one is electric that runs somewhere on the other side of the engine.

 

if the water is running down the block where all the pulleys are it could well be the mechanical water pump. if so it is good news as they are the cheaper and easier of the two to swap

 

IIRC, when mine went we had to drop one side of the engine down to gain access to the pump. reasonably easy job to do though, you have to strip airbox etc out and undo engine mounting with engine supported. then lower that side to pivot the engine down. then its just a case of undoing the pump, sliding it out and replacing it with a new one

[bigdaddy]

There you go,,,,,,,its not condensation from the A/C

[Steve S.]

Hi again,

Thanks for your suggestions.

Danyoda1....this leak is on the non-pulley side, and seems to be getting worse! It drips every 4 secs now.There is as you say another pump on this side called a coolant run-on pump.. I don't know its exact location so I can't be certain if it's the culprit or not! I'm working from the Peter Russek manual at the moment which shows the pipework at the front of the engine but not in sufficient detail to locate a leak and pipe responsible in the same position.(if you see what I mean) What I could do with is a super photo of the engine front minus the rad. Anyone!!!!!?????

I suppose the only course of action is to remove the rad. and have a closer look unless anyone can think of a work saving short cut or test of some kind.You can see I'm clutching at straws now! The last thing I wanted to do on a bank holiday is mess about with an oily old engine! Ah well.....

Regards

Steve S.

[bigdaddy]

I am sure the run on pump is on or at the bulkhead ,,,,,,, near the rear of the engine

[Steve S.]

Dear bd,

You could well be right...as I say the exploded diagrams in Russet are next to useless when it comes to locating the actual position of things relative to each other.I don't know whether there are better diagrams available else where.I don't think Haynes or TIS deal with the V6.What else is there?

Regards,

Steve S.

[bigdaddy]

Elsawin,,,,dont know if it covers the V6 ,,,,, but i am sure the peeps on here who have it will have a look for you

[NikpV]

is the run-on and after running pup the same thing, if so this may help (removing electrical connection)

 

ps tis only has one section for this pump so I assume its the same for 2.3 & v6 as oppsed to the water pump which has separate sections

[bigdaddy]

I knew there was another post on this subject

 

 

Clicky Here

[Steve S.]

Thanks for that guys. I can't see it being this pump then if it's stuck on the bulkhead. This leak seems to be a slow "gravity" leak. It reminds me of a weepy core plug type of leak, but it could be a pipe leak as there appears to be a few at the front of the block.

 

Steve S.

[sepulchrave]

I think I know what this is.

 

VW Part number is 021 121 117A, cost

[Steve S.]

Dear Sepulchrave ,

I think you may well be right! I've spent most of the day taking "layers" of car off to gain access to this area.Imust admit I was getting a bit cheesed off with that "getting nowhere"feeling but your post will give me fresh impetus to carry on tomorrow! Do you happen to know why a leak occurs here, is it a crack in the plastic or a seal or joint problem? Also I'm at the stage wondering whether to remove the a/c radiator or not .What do you recommend? Any other tips?

Cheers,

Steve S.

[sepulchrave]

Yes,

 

1) Headlamp washer covers unclip.

2) Remove both Indicators, just loosen bolts enough to slide 'em out.

3) Front grill off: 2 screws, 2 press clips at top. (mind the two hidden clips right by the headlamp washers), 7mm headed bolt behind each indicator.

4) Headlamps out: 4 torx each. Don't lose the seal spacers when disconnecting the multiplugs.

5) Front number plate off: 2 torx behind.

6) Front bumper cover off: 3 torx screws into each arch liner, 3 below valance. disconnect foglamps each side watch the seal spacers again.

7) Front impact absorber off: 4 torx bolts.

8) Unbolt bonnet catch and rad fan stay top bolt, tuck catch back by the MAF somewhere, leave release cable attached.

9) Unplug external temp. sender, clear loom.

10) Remove plastic panel stay each side from front wing inner: pull out spacers using pliers (x4) compress clips one at a time, pop, pop, pop, pop.

11) Unbolt washer bottle from front panel: 8mm bolt, unscrew fan control module: 2 x P3 machine screws, tuck away by battery (which you already disconnected of course!)

12) Remove plastic vanity partitions around battery/ expansion tank area.

13) Remove rad top hose (leave bottom on), unbolt front panel.

14) Remove air intake silencer.

15) Lift entire front panel c/w rad, fans and heat exchanger about six inches to get airbox assembly to clear (surprisingly heavy). Leave it resting in a position well forward and hanging down.

16) Remove starter motor top nut and the loom support attached to it.

17) Remove 2 x 5 mm allen bolts holding front lateral rigid (plastic!) cooling pipe and ease away from the plastic lego horror block.

18) remove all three sensor multi-ways: brown, blue, yellow.

19) Now remove the two rad hoses where they meet the lego block (rear is awkward since they are siamese moulded)

20) remove all three 5mm allen bolts holding lego to engine (only two will be visible unless you have an eye on the end of your index finger!), the third is a short one too, so don't drop it!

21) remove the object of your loathing (will require some nifty handling) and examine at leisure.

22) Now would be a good time to replace your reversing sensor too, since this is your only chance to view it with the naked eye!!!! Get your Maglite, can you see it?

 

The leak will likely be cracking of the thermoplastic around the moulded-in steel inserts where the bolts go through. Although the seal may also have failed, the inner seal retaining land on mine had gone AWOL causing the seal to be pulled into the housing as the engine cooled; this caused the seal to stretch and deform worsening the problem dramatically. It is likely that the cracking causes minor but invisible coolant loss over time which only becomes noticeable when the seal finally fails.

 

As to cause, it's caused by the blasted component being made of poxy thermoplastic which eventually becomes brittle with age! I must admit that I replaced the thermostat with a Neuspeed 70C item, and this has usefully lowered everyday running temperatures together with lowered oil temps. Get one here:

 

http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/shop/customer...&cat=398&page=1

 

Best of British Old Chap, when it's all over console yourself: JUST IMAGINE WHAT THE DEALER WOULD'VE CHARGED YOU! :P

[Steve S.]

Dear Sepulchrave,

Just back from the pub quiz...another disaster! Thanks for your latest epistle! I reckon I'm at about no.15 on your guide, tho' I don't think that I've disconnected quite as much...though there is still time! You seem to suggest that the a/c rad/heat exchanger can be left gassed up if you just disconnect a few more bits from the front???.I'll take your good advice and renew the thermostat.. as you say it's not a job that you want to repeat too often! I'm trying to decide whether this motor is as complex as my recently departed Renault 5 gt turbo...I suppose the decider is how many bits youv'e got left over at the end

Cheers

Steve S.

[sepulchrave]

Yes, you can leave it all gassed up, the flexi hoses are long enough.

 

Of course if you can find some short cuts then be my guest, I went all out because I didn't know what the problem was until I'd stripped everything back to get a good look.

 

Someone here suggested that removing the coil-pack was good enough to get it off from above, although I doubt it would help with the front lateral rigid hose connection.

 

At least doing it this way meant I kept all the skin on my knuckles, and more importantly it enabled me to clean the mating block face and surrounding area very thoroughly before re-fitting the new components.

 

I had no spare parts at the end, and neither will you! :rolleyes:

[Steve S.]

Well Hi to one and all,

I thought I'd get back to you regarding this little problem. I

realise it's been some time , but the weather's been so nice I could't be arsed to spend the time in the garage. Well the problem turned out to be exactly as sepulchrave suggested....a million thanks to you! Basically the rubber gasket had failed on the thermostat housing due I suspect to the plastic channel in which it sits having broken away in part thus allowing leakage across the gasket. (I later discovered an American website which says " the commonest cause of coolant leakage in the V6 engine...") so there we have it. I replaced the thermostat and all the relevant "O" rings plus the drivebelt. I also had to replace the coolant run-on pump ( on V6's it sits under the rhs of the radiator) would have cost about