Battery Not Holding It's Charge

[greg_68]

This weeks problem.

 

During the summer shutdown I left my car standing for 3 weeks, came back and it was completely dead.

 

Charged battery overnight, ran ok for approx 10 days then showed signs of slow starting until about another 3 days later would not turnover at all.

 

When running I am getting a voltage across the terminals of 14.4 volts so I assumed the battery had passed away.

 

Purchased a new battery from Halfords, got it home only to find it was flat, charged it overnight and that has run for approx 2 weeks.

 

Now getting the same slow starting and will no doubt end up failing to turn over again.

 

Me not understandy.

 

Is the charge from the alternator ok?

 

Alternator is only about 18 months old (new one not recon)

 

Is it a battery or alternator fault.

 

If it is an alternator fault why I am getting 14.4 volts.

 

If it is a battery fault why I am getting the same symptoms with a new battery?

 

My only stupid explanation I can come up with is that the new battery is no good either and cannot hold it's charge.

 

Any ideas. Help most welcome.

[toneinblack]

my parents had a problem like this and bought a new battery , only for it to keep going flat on them , anyway they got the rac out to jump start them and the rac man done all the checks and he found an interior light was left on all the time and they hadnt noticed ,

might be worth checking the interior lights ( glove box, door bottoms, rear luggage space etc ) are all switching off .

[_dg]

Battery draining is typically something left on or earth leakage from a dodgy connector.

 

Also, don't these batteries need a charge of a few days to fully charge them?

[seatkid]

Purchased a new battery from Halfords, got it home only to find it was flat

suggests they sold you a duff battery...take it back and complain.

[Topbloke]

suspect a battery drain , if you know how much the battery is chargeing then you must have a voltmeter, does it have amps ? if so, if you dissconect the battery and connect the ampmeter in series ( positive to the terminal on battery, negative to the battery lead) you should get a reading approx 0.1 of an amp anything much more than this shows a drain, this is when it gets interesting anything from a interior light to a dodgy relay could be drawing the battery down , however with it taking two weeks to flatten the battery it would only be a small draw glove box light springs to mind if you need further guidence then pm me and i will try to help. :lol: :) :)

[Masked Marauder]

If the battery you bought from Halfords is a Calcium or Hybrid then it is knackered

 

If a calcium or Hybrid battery goes flat then it won't charge up again without using a very expensive pulse charger.

 

So if it is as above (they have a 3 year warranty) then take it back, it has been on the shelf too long.

[greg_68]

Thanks for the replies,

 

Topbloke. No I do not have a ammeter, only a voltmeter. I cannot see anything being left on, the glovebox is going off when closed.

 

MM. I don't know what type of battery it is, just the bog standard one off the shelf for the Galaxy. About

[Masked Marauder]

Yes, take it back, at that price it sounds like a Calcium "Mantainance Free" type. It is likely knackered, just tell them that it will not hold a charge.

[Guest Parme]

I once had the same problem on a Vectra.

 

After recharging and even replacing the alternator the problem returned after a few weeks. In the end it was the earth cable that was broken. This is the cable that connects the alternator to the body of the car. It was broken inside the conector that is bolted to the body. Only one or two of the copper wires were intact.

 

Try testing the alternator by taking the earth on the alternator were the earth cable arrives.

[greg_68]

If a calcium or Hybrid battery goes flat then it won't charge up again without using a very expensive pulse charger.

 

MM, if that's the case and I do have a Calcium battery how are you supposed to charge it if you flatten it accidently?

[Andrew T]

Jump/Bump start it , then drive round for a bit.

[Guest j_mchattie]

PLEASE! READ THE ORIGINAL POST!

CAN EVERYONE STOP REPLYING TO THE LAST POST ON THE BOARD, AND READ THE FIRST ONE - FIRST!

 

I would also think it is a drain that you havent seen. Is there a light in the boot?

 

Otherwise it may be a charge circuit problem (such as bad connections on the battery or the earth lead to the body)

 

This is going to sound silly, but check the connector on the back of the Alternator, it might be loose.

 

Clean the battery clamps up, put them back on the battery and then apply a small amount of Vasoline to the terminals (not the mating faces).

 

Are your belts tight/new? If they slip - no charge.

[Masked Marauder]

Calcium Alloy Batteries - the Pros and Cons

 

Some typical calcium alloy battery characteristics, when compared with low antimonial batteries are:

• Lower self discharge rate, which increases shelf life and extends the charge period during shipping of vehicles. At the same temperature, shelf life periods are typically 2 months for low antimonial, 4 months for hybrid and 8 months for calcium / calcium.
  
• Lower water loss (gassing rate) under overcharging conditions. Test by VW-Europe showed the following comparative water loss rates:
  1.7% antimony 5 to 7 grams per amphour
  Hybrid 3 to 5 grams per amphour
  Calcium / Calcium 1.5 to 2.5 grams per amphour
  
• Lower internal resistance which provides a small increase in CCA performance.
  
• Higher charge rate acceptance.
  
• Can result in reduced positive grid life under cycling conditions, and at elevated operating temperatures. Positive plate failure can be through grid corrosion or loss of positive active material.
  
• 'Barrier Layer Sulphation' problems occur if fully discharged (flat). The battery can then be difficult to recharge, requiring a higher voltage charge. Battery life may be reduced as a result of 'barrier layer sulphation' as full capacity may not be regained.
  
• The key to the life and performance of calcium / calcium MF batteries is in the tight control of the manufacturing process and positive plate grid alloy specifications.
  

OE manufacturers fitting calcium / calcium batteries look for benefits in a longer 'stand' life (lower self discharge). This helps increase the probability of the vehicle starting after overseas shipment. Lower self discharge can help to offset standing (parasitic) electrical loads of, typically, 10 to 30 milliamps.

[Masked Marauder]

PLEASE! READ THE ORIGINAL POST!

CAN EVERYONE STOP REPLYING TO THE LAST POST ON THE BOARD, AND READ THE FIRST ONE - FIRST!

 

I did. And there could well be a small discharge causing the problem. But his new battery was flat when he bought it and he should take it back as Calcium batteries don't like going totally flat.

[johnb80]

It would seem to me it HAS to be a faulty battery. The fact that it runs for 2 weeks can rule out vehicle discharge, anything that didn't flatten it overrnight would easily get put back in a few minutes with the engine running. It would seem to me the battery is incapable of accepting charge from the alternator OR the alternator *may* be low on output. If you switch on the headlights and then start the engine, are the lights considerably brighter with the engine running (assuming normal headlights not H.I.D.'s).

 

Regards - John

[seatkid]

j_mchattie....why don't you read the original post? :lol:

 

It was flat when he got home from Halfords, despite 14.4 volts at battery which is spot on alternator output. He measured voltage at battery terminals which rules out bad connections/leads.

 

ITS A FAULTY BATTERY....MM is right, it was stored incorrectly at Halfords....

 

Take it back greg_68, Halfords will test it and sort it out without any further hassle.....

 

Trust me......I'm (still not) a doctor

[greg_68]

Cheers for the replies.

 

j_mchattie. new belt and tensioner so I don't think the belt is slipping.

went out in the dark last night and there are no lights that I can see that are on.

I will start looking at connections.

 

MM. I will be taking the battery back as you suggest.

 

johnb80. I thought the same as you a small discharge would be taken up with the daily drive to work and back.

 

Seatkid. Thanks for the advice but you are perfecting the knack of rubbing people up the wrong way.

 

The only thing I don't understand is that I have 2 batteries, one 2 years old and one 2 weeks old. What are the chances of both batteries being faulty.

 

Not great I wouldn't have thought which is really confusing me.

 

I charged my old battery up last week and it still measured 12.5 volts yesterday so off the car seems to be holding it's charge. Confusing me futher, if that's possible.

 

I will try and take it back tonight and report back. Although I think there maybe more to this than the battery.

 

As a further question if I take it back to Halfords will they be able to tell instantly if the battery is faulty.

 

Thanks all for your help.

[seatkid]

OK, have it your way...... just don't expect me to bump start it for you :)

 

BTW, just measuring voltage on a battery is no way indicative of whether its good or not, and thats my last bit of advice on the matter......

 

mind you........it could be a .........

nope! I'm not saying any more....... :lol:

[johnb80]

OK, have it your way...... just don't expect me to bump start it for you :P

 

BTW, just measuring voltage on a battery is no way indicative of whether its good or not, and thats my last bit of advice on the matter......

 

mind you........it could be a .........

nope! I'm not saying any more....... ;)

Cobblers!

 

If you measure the voltage and it's 0v it's a pretty good (unlikely I know) indication that it's dead :lol:

 

Please don't stop winding people up, you have a great skill that I admire :lol:

 

Regards - JB

[Guest vr6galaxy]

Right re read the op :lol: the Galaxy the battery is installed on is a 96, so if a Ca battery is fitted? will the standard alternator charge it fully? will it kick out a high enough charge rate to keep the battery happy? could it be that the charge being given to the new battery is not enough? and each time the vehicle is started it takes that little bit more out of the battery which cant be replaced? hence it's slow death :lol:

[greg_68]

Halfords tested the battery said "there's nothing wrong with it mate just needs charging" :lol:

 

Told them I had spoken to several battery experts (that'll be you lot) :lol: and informed them you said I shouldn't accept a battery that was flat when purchsed.

 

Young wipper snapper huffed and said "get a new one then" so I did.

 

When I connect it up it does spark a little between the terminal ansd the clamp suggesting a drain somewhere.

 

Apart from the suggestions already what else is likely to be draining the battery if that turns out to be the problem.

 

Have checked for lights left on etc and as I said have done nothing electrically that may cause a drain, so why would it start happeneing.

 

Guess I wil have to wait for 2 weeks to pass to see if this battery is any better, although I can check the voltage every couple of days to see if it decreasing.

 

Thanks again.

[Guest docker]

silly thing but when i buy batterys i always get them to

 

drop test the thing , then you can eliminate the battery route.

 

a new one should be fully charged and the tiniest or no movement

 

on the needle , i insist they do it in front of me

 

cheers PHIL

[Guest j_mchattie]

MM - That wasn't for you! Your advice has been helpful to me in the past.

 

It was the

Jump Start It

[Guest j_mchattie]

SEATKID - Again - your help is much appreciated by me (and everyone) - But 14.4v doesnt mean anything. That will be at Idle - little load.

 

When the car demands more (moving) the amperage may not be high enough, and charging doesn't occur. 14.4v means nothing.

 

I used to work for halfords - all the batteries arrive in the shop charged for them to sell. You wont get a FLAT battery from them. MAybe a little discharged - but certainly not flat. And they are all tested for faults before they go on the shelf by the factories.

 

Alt good + battery good = bad connection or a drain.

 

A bad connection would get hot under load, and not pass the correct current.

[johnb80]

Just get an electrician to put a clip on ammeter on the main battery lead. Let it stand with headlights on, heater blower etc for 5 minutes or so, start the engine. You should then see a good healthy charge going into the battery, if you only see a trickle you've found your problem.

 

Shouldn't be expensive to do, they only clip the ammeter around the lead, if you live near Lincoln I can do it for you.

 

Regards - John