Tyre (tire) Rotation

[edwardoplunkett]

Standard practice in the US. Typically specified by manufacturers (and required as a condition of mileage warranty):

 

http://www.dunloptire.com/care/faqs/should_I_rotate.html

 

I'm now trying to decide if it's better to let the fronts wear out and replace two at a time, or rotate and replace 4 at a time every 30-40k. Any thoughts?

[seatkid]

:D mmm.................... :D ........ :D ......yep...(rotate at half life).....unless you do high mileages (20k+/year)

 

But watch they don't crush yer sills!!..... :D

[Guest stawarz]

Usually follow the typical fwd guideline to move the rears to the front when the fronts wear out (the newest pair at the rear).

[Andrew T]

I always do the opposite and put the new tyres on the front. I reckon having the deepest tread on the front will give the best traction on snow/grass/mud, give better wet road braking, better resistance to aquaplaning and higher ultimate grip on wet corners. I do remember C4s Driven arguing the opposite to this on the basis that having the best tyres on the back would guarantee the car always understeered, but I don't regard that as enough reason against the above.

[Guest stawarz]

From what I remember from the adice a Michelin engineer gave was the follows:

1. FWD cars inherently understear and also when new FWD cars are design they will not design out this behaviour as understear is more controllable for novice drivers.

2. When you get into trouble on a bend and start to understear the most cars may then go into oversteer as the tail end of the car has little weight, compared to the front, over the non-driven rear wheels thus the tyres with most tread such be placed on the rear to try and keep the handling even.

 

Finally owing to the potential long lifetime of a rear tyre on a FWD car, doing back to front rotation after the fronts have worn avoids/reduces the situtation whereby the rear tyre walls start to crumble from age and the small pins holes that develop from the increasing use of jet washers.

 

Just my tuppence worth ;o)

[Andrew T]

But surely if have the best tyres on the front you are less likely to get into trouble in the first place ?

 

Agree on not letting tyres live their entire life on the back though. Bought a FWD car that had it's original Michelin Energy tyres on the Back @ 70K. Within a few months both had "bulged" and had to be scrapped, still had over 3mm of tread on them.

 

I now try to get a new set of front tyres on at the beginning of winter, moving the old Fronts to the backs with 3-4mm on them.

[Guest stawarz]

With all the weight on the fronts, if you get into trouble you must have been pushing the poor Gal' somewhat. The rear to front rotation argument generally hangs on the premise that it's easier for the majority of people to control a car in under steer than one in over steer hence why it's recommended to keep the rear as "grippy" as possible.

 

Next time you see a single car off the road from a non-collision accident, if it's facing the wrong direction take a note of whether it was a FWD or RWD car.

[Andrew T]

But we 're talking here about the handling in extremis, an event that hopefully happens infrequently. Having owned many cars of both types I think with oversteer you have a sporting chance of sorting yourself out, compared with lift-off-and-pray understeer.

Every time you go out on the road you will benefit from the superior braking/roadholding/traction from having the best tyres on the front. At the moment I have about 6mm of tread on the front and 3mm on the rear, frankly the thought of swapping them around gives me the willies!

[Guest stawarz]

...I guess all of the above shows how contentious this issue can be lol

 

Anyhow's here is an interesting link from Dunlop:

http://www.driveradviser.com/tyre/faq.shtml#q12

[Guest stawarz]

Have to agree with you Andrew T about prefering some oversteer, nothing more fun than turning into the skid to snap the end back in.

 

But I guess as:

1. Motor companies tend to design cars that understeer as it is more forgiving

2. Most people only have experience with a limited variety of cars

3. Not everyone has skidpan training, drive to ski resorts or holiday in Scandinavia in the Winter

 

maintaining understeer characteristics would be a safe bet.

 

Now to go off and bury my head in the sand again.... ;o)

 

What joy, the fraud stealer called and told me the A/C compressor, clutch and instrument cluster (the dying fuel gauge syndrome) all have to be replaced. All fortunately under warranty :-)

[Andrew T]

Ah, I do enjoy the cut and thrust of a good debate...

I agree it's there it's in black and white, but it seems to fly in the face of common sense to me. The amount of wet road grip available is (all other things being equal)proportional to the depth of tread. If you take an everyday scenario - entering a greasy roundabout too fast, the loss of control speed may be 15mph on front tyres with 2mm of tread but 25mph on 7mm of tread, thus the extra grip may have saved having the "moment " in the first place.

I agree with Mr Dunlop that older tyres are more liable to puncture, but I for one would far rather have a blow out on the back that the front.

I intend to drive on confidently with my best tyres on the front, am I alone ?

[Ivor_E_Tower]

Some years ago I read that rotating tyres was considered a bad idea as they "bed in" according to camber etc. So I never rotate mine and just hope that they don't all wear out at once, since that will prove somewhat expensive !

[Bigjeeze]

Both my Gals' are Ex BT Fleet - and both of them had tyres replaced in pairs and always the fronts got the new tyres as they had worn the most. When I asked why I was told this was the best way to ensure safety, as the front tyres (on 2WD) vehicles should always have the best tyre condition possible, as this is usually where all the action is!

 

With a fleet of some 60,000 vehicles I guess they know what they're doing!

[delboyt]

rotate

front one's an new as possible &

rear the older one's

a m8 of mine works for a tyre fitting company

& alwas does it

new ones fitted to the front

part worn onto the rear & theone of the part worn one goes as the spare

if it's good enough.

[edwardoplunkett]

Received this from Dunlop UK:

 

Thank you for your e-mail.

 

We do still recommend tyre rotation unless the vehicle manufacturer in

their hand book has advised against it.

 

Less and less people in the UK do their own servicing due to the

introduction of Chips and other engine complexities. This has also meant

the reduction of other maintenance items such as tyre rotation. Tyre

dealers will often charge for changing the tyres around so many people

unfortunately leave the tyres where they are until they are worn.

 

I hope life will be good to you here in the UK.

 

Regards

 

Peter Wayte

Product Support & Service

 

 

My objective is to maximize the life of my tires. To me, it would seem that the contact area of each tire is nearly the same with out regard for tread depth untill the tire is literally treadless, in which case the contact area increases. I believe we want tread to help channel away water, snow etc when roads are not dry.

 

Clearly, the deeper the tread, the more resistance one will have to aquaplaning in heavy rains. Wet skid resistance is a function of tire compound, contact area and axel weight, IMHO. New tires should have the same wet skid resistance as those half gone.

 

So now I'm thinking that I will rotate my tires every 5-7k as I always have, and reduce my trips to the tire dealer (stealer?) by 50%. I will wind up buying 4 at once, but I'll try Costco. Thankfully my air compressor/impact gun/ makes rotation a 15 minute job. Still a pain though...

[tim-spam]

Tyre manufacturers generally recommend tyre rotation - usually front to rear and vice-versa. Just a few points to be made:

1) "All the weight is at the front....". No, it's around 55% on an MPV (less if laden)

2) Handling is better if there is not too much difference in tread depth and age front to rear - hence the recommendation to rotate tyres.

3) If a tyre blows out on a bend, the outer rear is the most dangerous - oversteer, followed by the rim 'digging in', followed by overturn.

4) I have Dunlops at the moment (the car was supplied with them), and will certainly not choose them again - noisy, poor wet road performance and poor life. So, I will want to change all 4 at once.

5) Mild understeer is considered to be the safest characteristic for the majority of situations, as it is generally self-correcting - assuming there is enough road, the car will run slightly wider (thus reducing the cornering force) and it will tend to scrub off speed. Obviously, gross understeer (or oversteer for that matter) could be terminal if you run out of road!

6) The reasons why front tyres tend to wear out more quickly (even on my wife's RWD Mercedes 190) is the initial mild (ie: barely noticeable) understeering tendency of most cars in everyday driving, the extra weight (55% - 60%) and the effects of being the steering wheels. FWD cars also have the tractive forces to deal with.