OIL TYPE USED - TDI ONLY

[jkspoff]

Ford SD semi-synthetic oil for PD engines,

[Guest marcusheawood]

[synthetic oil is not 'just a mineral oil']

 

It is EXACTLY that; it is not synthetic.

It has simply been processed to remove most of the shorter or 'broken' long-chain molecules.

 

[One of the benefits of synthetic oils is that oil consumption is reduced]

 

This is simply because the oil stays in grade longer as I have already stated. Fully synthetic oils of 5-10W are NOT recommended for use in older higher mileage engines - see if you can guess why!

 

In case you hadn't noticed my advice is based upon the premise of using cheaper brand new oils, so the maths in your '300k Merc' argument doesn't hold up; you change the oil twice as often but at less than half the cost.

 

...I still maintain you should change your oil at 2.5-3k, however a filter change is not necessary until 5-6k so you'd still save money and your engine would last longer.

 

Prove me wrong, I can prove you're wrong on both the counts above!

 

Belief often stands as an obstacle to reason. :huh:

[seatkid]

I am still unclear as to the consequences of not using a 505.01 oil in the PD engine. Is it merely that you will get fewer mpg from your fuel; or at the other end of the spectrum that the engine will be totally ruined?

A lesser oil has not got the specified extra high shear strength to ensure that the camshaft driving the PD injectors dont come into metal-to-metal contact.

 

The consequence would be early and rapid camshaft and PD injector damage, and thats about all.

[seatkid]

Just sold my 1.4 petrol Golf after 152k miles/11years - often went 20k between oil and filter changes (semi synthetic) - still didnt use a drop when sold. Car not stored in a garage either and frequently abused by others.

 

If only the other bits were as good.......

[seatkid]

Belief often stands as an obstacle to reason.  :D

I have my own :D beliefs about oil/filter changes.

 

1. Changing the oil and filter exposes the engine to several seconds of "No Oil at all" first time you start. - How much damage is that? (Maybe not much....but certainly some)

 

2. "Synthetic" oils are definitely more stable than "mineral" oils and do not deteriorate as much with extemes of operating or non-operating conditions, they can effectively last for ever...but.....

 

3. E.g. In a diesel engine, the important qualities of the oil are its abilty to "soak" up soot and acid, pesky byproducts of the combustion process that find its way into the oil, without affecting it lubrication ability.

 

4. An oil filter gets more efficient at removing fine particles as time goes on. :huh: ... on second thoughts, that may not always be the case.....anyway.....filters do last a lot longer than people think. AFAIK the same filters are used for longlife and variable service intervals by VAG (30,000km/2yr)

 

5. As far as oil consumption goes the top number (e.g. 40) is the important one as this specifies hot (@ 100 degC) viscosity. The bottom number (e.g. 5) specifies cold viscosity (@ 0 degC). Interestingly 0W does not equate to zero viscosity, so maybe even a -5/40 is possible :D All oil that we buy gets thinner with increasing temperature, 0w/40w is still thicker at 0 deg c than 100 deg c....

 

6. So? How long does oil and filters last? Well it depends on how you drive......more welly......more chips/tuning boxes and the oil gets contaminated with combustion byproducts... also but,to a lesser extent, a car not stored in a garage is subject to temperature/humidity cycling when the engine is stood and this allows oxygenated water to accumulate in the oil leading to RUST inside the engine. This RUST is removed when you start the engine but the oil has to "soak" it up..... The WATER can only be removed by making sure the oil gets hot enough to boil it away (cue chip pan noise)

 

Personally, I think that manufacturers base their recommended service interval on a conservative scenario, where over 95% of drivers would not experience problems regarding engine wear. So if you are a gentle driver, store your car in a garage overnight, and make sure you get the car up to working temperature and avoid short cold journeys, then I think its reasonable to up the manufacturers interval by 50%.

 

If you use a top quality synthetic which had a high additive content to control acidity, soot dispertion etc - (hint....its called longlife oil) you could even extend your oil changes to 30,000 miles+ without damage to your engine and potentially saving money

 

But thats Seatkid's wacky opinion only....

[Ivor_E_Tower]

FWIW I can remember when 12,000 service intervals were introduced, I read an extensive technical article that said that the limiting factor on oil change intervals was the filter. Oil technology has improved greatly over the past 20,000 miles however filters still work on the same basic principle of little holes in paper elements (simplification). The filters for 12,000 mile intervals were significantly larger than those for 6,000 mile intervals. Over the last 20 years though, filter size has reduced again so there has been some improvement in filter technology, but nothing like as much as in the oil technology. So in fact, it may be better to change filters every 6,000 miles and just top the oil up, rather than doing a complete oil change every 6,000 miles. On the other hand .......

 

Basically you pay your money and take your choice.

[tim-spam]

Once and for all, synthetic oils and mineral oils are NOT the same. Mineral oil is refined form crude oil, and relies upon additives to give multigrade properties - these additives (known as viscosity improvers) tend to detract from the lubricating properties of the base oil and break down comparitively quickly, as do the detergent additives. A 15W50 is a 15 weight oil with viscosity improvers to make it like a 50 weight oil at 110 degC.

A synthetic oil is an oil manufactured for enhanced lubrication performance using the Fischer-Tropsch process which converts carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, and methane into liquid hydrocarbons of various forms - in other words, it is synthesised. The multigrade and detergent characteristics are inherent in the base product, and do not depend upon non-lubricating viscosity improvers. This is fact.

My attitude towards the use of good quality oils has been influenced due to my profession and past experience. During the '80's, I ran a 1050cc VW Polo (40bhp) (bought at 4 years old and 50,000 miles). I used Castrol GTX 15W50 oil in this car, but at around 60,000 miles, the engine suffered oil starvation and siezure, requiring a reground crank, new bearings and new oil pump and suction strainer. The cause was a partially blocked suction strainer. As I was working as an Automotive Design Engineer at the time, I had the sludge analysed to find the cause. There were ash deposits caused by poor stability of the base oil, and the trace analysis indicated that various types of mineral oil had been used in the engine. The analyst recommended synthetic oil to avoid any future problems. He said that modern engines (yes, it was a modern engine at the time!) ran much higher combustion temperatures due to emissions regulations (regardless of the specific bhp), and that closed CCV systems and forthcoming EGR systems put further demands on oils, leading to the problems I had experienced.

This car ran to 150,000 miles with no further problems before I sold it, and I know it ran well for several years after that.

I know from Test and Development experience that synthetic lubricants are superior to mineral oils - this is fact. The ONLY disadvantage of synthetics is price, and that is largely offset by longer life, reduced wear and reduce fuel consumption.

One more thing: it is vital to use an oil approved by the manufacturer (be it mineral or synthetic), as all engines use oil (typically at the rate of 0.1% to 0.2% of fuel consumed), and this passes through the exhaust system and must therefore be compatible with the catalyst. For those of us who have cars where the oil level never falls (like my wife's Merc), this is because the rate of oil consumption is roughly matched by the rate of contamination.

So, there is no shortage of choice, and it is always better to base choice on facts. But, whatever choice you make, it is vital to follow the manufacturer's recommendations - after all, they're the ones who have done all of the test and development work on their engines.

But, after all is said and done, "Belief often stands as an obstacle to reason.".

[Guest marcusheawood]

Here is a quote for you:

 

"Fact: Not all products labeled

[tim-spam]

Well, at least you acknowledge that there is a difference - yes, I'm sure there are many non-synthetic synthetics, which is why I used Mobile 1, and now use Castrol TXT 505.01 in my diesel - this is not a PAO oil, but is a synthetic ester type (these are generally superior, and a little dearer, than PAO's). My chosen career allows me a certain amount of inside information, so I do not have to rely on being a 'trusting soul' - I check the facts before spending my money. I believe that all of your other 'points' have been well addressed by myself and others, but for good measure here's one more. If I changed my car's oil every 2500 miles, I would have changed the oil 7 times in the last year - using a good quality oil and changing it every 10000 miles not only gives better protection and saves me money, it reduces the amount of earache from SWMBO.

[Guest marcusheawood]

...Ayesha?

[tim-spam]

Bless you.

[deadpool2e]

planning on doing a oil change soon myself.... Do i need a new sump plug? if so where do i get it from and also is it easy to get the engine under cover off?

 

also would you sujest that i use a oil flush before i top up again? and how much oil does the Gal take?

 

Sorry for all the questions....Im driving from london to scotland and want it all to be well.

[jkspoff]

The sump plug doesn't need to be replaced every time on the Galaxy, only if the built on washer appears crushed from previous over tightening. The Gal will take 4.3 litres of oil, I use the Ford PD oil, 505.01 spec. (

[tim-spam]

I was talking to a work colleague yesterday who does all of his own maintenance, and used to be in the car servicing trade. He runs a Golf TDI 130 (PD engine) and has used Castol Magnatec since 20,000 miles - car now has 120,000 miles and has been absolutely reliable, and there is no sign of any abnormal wear having taken place. Apparently, there are many in the garage trade who rate Magnatec as the best semi-synthetic on the market (although I guess that they may have been a little taken in by marketing hype). He was totally unconcerned by the warnings of catastrophe and impending doom in his owner's book. However, I will still stick with using a 505.01 oil in mine, as he may have just been lucky.

[Guest marcusheawood]

...no, it's not luck it's just that the case hardening on the PD ancilliary cam and the actuators hasn't completely gone through yet! :lol:

 

Wait for the loud wailing sounds when it does... :lol:

[Bigjeeze]

...no, it's not luck it's just that the case hardening on the PD ancilliary cam and the actuators hasn't completely gone through yet! :lol:

 

Wait for the loud wailing sounds when it does... :lol:

 

That's an interesting point - 120K miles is quite a lot for the wrong oil - the way I have read the situation up until now is that using the wrong oil will bugger up your engine in no time at all - 120K miles at average mileage is 8 years!

 

Are we being mugged here or is this a one off - like the My granny smokes 100 fags a day and is 105? :lol:

[Masked Marauder]

It could be that the Magnatec he has been using exceeds the required specification but has not been tested. But do you want to take the chance?

[Guest marcusheawood]

...I should say that Magnatec is a perfectly decent blended mineral oil of consistant grade and quality. It's just that it's overpriced and there's a lot of b**locks talked about it's magical cold start properties, they don't dare sell it in the US under that name nor do they they dare to make those claims. Wonder why? :lol:

 

I wouldn't DREAM of using it in any high performance petrol engine or a PD engine for that matter. It's an 'ornery' oil for 'ornery' motors.

[Guest marcusheawood]

...Oh and BTW Tim, your mates PD130 with 120K, how long to rack that 100K up? My money is on a LOT of motorway miles, which as every smartarse knows is nothing like 10 years of regular motoring (or even 8? :lol: ), which is why repmobiles are such terrific used buys.

 

Have you ever seen inside an engine that had done 120K in two years and was serviced on the button? Absolutely pristine! Compare and contrast the same engine, same mileage, same servicing but over twelve years. YUK!!!!

 

Bet your mates top end starts to rattle before long though! :lol:

[tim-spam]

It may well do - as I said, I'm sticking to 505.01. As regards Castrol's hype, Magnatec contains a small quantity of ester based synthetic, which does cling to metal surfaces - so, Castrol's claims have an element of truth. However, what Castrol has been rapped over the knuckles for is not this claim, but their claim or implication that this is a property unique to Magnatec. The simple fact is that any oil using a proportion of ester based base stock will exhibit this property.

[Guest marcusheawood]

...and how, pray tell, does this ester cling to metal surfaces please?

[jkspoff]

I definately get more mpg from using the correct oil, now that I've done it myself, knowing that the previous oil was wrong. I would say on average I have noticed from the trip computer 4-6 mpg more, noticeable on the regular journeys I make to work and back.

[tim-spam]

...and how, pray tell, does this ester cling to metal surfaces please?

It's called polarisation, and is an established property of ester based synthetic base stocks.

[Guest marcusheawood]

...nonsense!

 

If you know enough about chemistry, you'll know that oil is a non-ionic compound which is one of the properties that precludes it from mixing readily with water (which is an ionic compound). What does this mean? It means that the ionization potential for oil is nil. No ionization potential = no magnetism. Chemists may be able to synthesize an ionic compound that replicates the characteristics of oil such as viscosity, surface tension, etc, but then would it really be an oil?

 

The real reason oil and water do not mix has everything to do with their polar strength. This has to do with whether the electrons are equally shared or not. Water is a highly polar substance, the oxygen atom dominates the electrons from the hydrogen atoms, giving it a partial negative charge. Because of this, and the way a water molecule is shaped, the water molecules attract strongly to each other, much like magnets.

 

Oil, on the other hand, is a weakly polar substance because the electrons are mostly evenly "shared". Because of this, the water molecules attract each other more strongly than they attract oil particles. The reason that they do not visibly mix is because the water-water attraction is stronger than the water-oil attraction, so the water-water attraction must be broken in favor for a weaker attraction costing energy that isn't there. Thus, most oil molecules do not mix with the water.

 

ANY oil could have a polymer additive (since oil manufacturers DO add stuff to their oil), which might work, since polymers can have ionizing polar groups on them.

 

See http://www.carbibles.com/additives.html for the full article.

 

Be careful about what myths you expound Tim!

[Bigjeeze]

Interesting Marcus - By the by - Are you a Chemist? or just a well informed reader?

 

It's always wise to check the credentials of people making or rubbishing claims.

 

I am not! :lol: