Starting Problem

[darrenwarner]

Hi i have a mk2 1.9tdi galaxy that has started to playup when starting, to get it to start hot or cold i have to hold the starter motor on for about 40 seconds before she runs then she is fine.

[Az2102]

Check glow plugs or if not it's a faulty starter

[BrianH]

Might be worth checking the fuel filter - it could be full of water and need draining, colder weather can allow it to freeze up in this state. Also worth looking if you do decide to open it up for what comes out - Diesel should flow out in good order, if water comes out then best to repeat it a couple of times till it seems to clear up.

 

If its not been changed in some time you might be best to change it anyway. Given its when its hot then it shouldn't be glowplug related.

 

Needs addressing really before you burn out the starter motor though. Does it sound like its cranking slowly or at normal speed? Other possibility as its a mk2 is that the fusebox melting - it would be a good idea to check that, as it maybe failing to energise part of the system. Theres various posts on here about the meltdown issue.

Edited December 28, 2016 by BrianH

[darrenwarner]

Many thanks for your help, the starter motor is turning normally and i have changed the fuel filter and disel coming out.

A thought i have had is could the pump be going or a ir leak in the system which would let the disel run back when not running but primes up when starting?

[Az2102]

Might be worth checking the fuel filter - it could be full of water and need draining, colder weather can allow it to freeze up in this state. Also worth looking if you do decide to open it up for what comes out - Diesel should flow out in good order, if water comes out then best to repeat it a couple of times till it seems to clear up.

 

If its not been changed in some time you might be best to change it anyway. Given its when its hot then it shouldn't be glowplug related.

 

Needs addressing really before you burn out the starter motor though. Does it sound like its cranking slowly or at normal speed? Other possibility as its a mk2 is that the fusebox melting - it would be a good idea to check that, as it maybe failing to energise part of the system. Theres various posts on here about the meltdown issue.

 

Well spotted batman. Didn't read the "happening HOT or cold" bit. My bad

[Az2102]

Is there a non return return valve at the pump/fuel tank end that is starting to fail?

[darrenwarner]

I will check

[BrianH]

Is there a non return return valve at the pump/fuel tank end that is starting to fail?

Shouldn't need one - theres a pump in the tank on the galaxy (which is not always the case with diesels). There isn't anywhere for it to leak back to really once the system is sealed so non-return valve shouldn't be needed as it can only leak into the diesel left in the tank (so you'd end up with a pipe full of diesel either way unless the tank was completely empty)

 

A Leak further up could be causing problems though, or a blockage on the pickup for that matter. Though this wouldn't usually occur with a blockage (they tend to cause the car to cut out once its started). a leak allowing air to get in to the system could be causing it - the delay will be the system purging via the injectors if thats the case. Does it fail to start when you try to restart from running (within say 5 seconds of shutting the engine off?).

 

When it does it does the led on the drivers door flash rapidly? It could be relay 109 type issues though these usually randomly occur (this is more likely if it doesn't do it every time, though solder joints can fail in ways that give consistent faults, they are usually more random), if the door led is doing anything odd then it may be worth digging into the fusebox to check if you haven't any other ideas?

 

If you can find which hose supplies the filter and disconnect it you should be able to see whats happening (you will need someone to turn the key, and suggest you have something to catch the diesel that comes out of the hose - you should see it pump for a few seconds if the engine isn't running, it may take a moment to refill the line though as you've opened the end of it).

Edited December 29, 2016 by BrianH

[darrenwarner]

Hi thank you so much for your help.

When it has been running and i turn off then restart streight away i have to do the same procedure to restart.

 

I hope this might help narrow down any help

 

Thanks

[BrianH]

Doubt its fuel related then. whats the led on the drivers door doing whilst this is the case?

[Az2102]

Hi thank you so much for your help.

When it has been running and i turn off then restart streight away i have to do the same procedure to restart.

 

I hope this might help narrow down any help

 

Thanks

Might be a long shot but I had a similar problem with a laguna and I was adamant it wasn't the starter. But when we pushEd it, it started everytime. 2 month later in the cold the starter packed up.

 

Worth a punt?

[BrianH]

Got to be worth a try if your stuck for any other options, though check the door led first as if thats flashing then its probably relating to the immobiliser/relay. hard for anyone to say for sure without seeing it first hand, but given its a diesel it may be not cranking as fast as it should do. Could also be a lack of compression - a compression test wouldn't be a bad idea if you've got access to get one done, this may show up a lack of cranking speed if you have a benchmark to work to.

 

What soft of milage is on the car?

[darrenwarner]

Hi i have been working on her today and there is no leak or water in the diesal filter but the led is constantly on and then flahes cosistently even when the engine is running

 

What does this mean?

[BrianH]

unless there is rapid flashing nothing to worry about - if its running you can ignore it, rapidly flashing (like alternating between states so its on-off-on-off in around a second) when trying to start would indicate the immobiliser isn't deactivating, which would possibly be the relay issue mentioned above.

[darrenwarner]

I will get a 109 relay, i will let you know the outcome many thanks for your help

[darrenwarner]

Hi i have changed the 109 relay and it starts after about 20 seconds on the startermotor the led is now fine on the door.

Any other ideas ? I am thinking glow plugs as it needs a service.

[BrianH]

Does it work from warm as expected? A failing plug will usually allow starting eventually, but may well smoke till it manages to warm up sufficiently. From a warm (read heated - anything from approx 10 mins running i'd expect to start within a half hour or so without needing the glowplugs to help) start if it fires up quickly then i'd suspect the plugs to be suspect.

[darrenwarner]

It is slow starting when hot as well

 

While starting she is trying to run but is lumpy then suddenly purs and runs smooth, if i stop the starter motor while starting she is lumpy runs for a bit then dies , if i keep the starter motor going she will suddenly smooth out and pur.

 

The glow plugs are ok.

 

Any other ideas it can only be something simple as she is fine after starting.

 

Many thanks for your help

[Az2102]

Check the fuel filter, check you are getting fuel down to the injectors (crack a pipe at a time whilst someone else starts it, make sure there's no air in the line) Other than that id be going for the starter motor

[BrianH]

Check the fuel filter, check you are getting fuel down to the injectors (crack a pipe at a time whilst someone else starts it, make sure there's no air in the line) Other than that id be going for the starter motor

If you want to go for confirming the starter motor then if you can find someone who is able to rebuild them they should be able to test it for you. I'm not sure how expensive the starter for the diesel model costs, which may be putting you off replacing it if your unsure.

 

The only other thought is if its a diesel injector playing up - you might clear that up if its the fault with some injector cleaner. The first bit of the above reply (check the injectors leak when slightly loosening the supply pipe) should prove the supply upto that point, so if that proves to be ok I'd try some injector cleaner personally - I've put some directly into the filter on other cars before then run the engine for long enough to pull the cleaner upto the injectors and then leave it for a couple of hours, then try again and its been surprising how much of a difference it can make. Better quality diesel can sometimes help even if its only a single tank worth. The only other thing i've known to cause issues is if the engine isn't running as hot as it should do - Does the front heater get hot, or just barely warm on normal run?

Edited January 23, 2017 by BrianH