Mk2 2.3 Wont Crank Or Start...?immobilised?

[brooksiexxxxx]

Hello Galaxy Pepes, Im a newbie with my first Galaxy problem...its a 2002 2.3 manual ghia, had it for years now, always been good, but for some reason refused to start at the weekend.

The central locking works fine, when I put the key in to start the engine it turns to the crank position but does nothing.I think the fuel pump is starting although its hard to hear it.

I seem to recall being told that the door led should flash to acknowledge the correct key being used, but it does not light.

The RAC tech had a look, he checked battery connections, bypassed starter relay circuit so the engine cranked but did not fire, did diagnostics on it  which showed a prob with the immob, but reading other posts relay 30 or 27 causes the same symptoms?

Unfortunately the gal is not athome its parked a mileaway so checking anything is a problem...has anybody else had this trouble?

The car has been fantastic over the years, but Im afraid of letting a ford garage near it...does anybody know a good place to source the relays from?

Does anybody have the same car and can confirm what the door led should be doing?

Please help...shes not ready forthe scrapheap yet!!!

Thanks in advance

Brooksiexx

[BrianH]

If it is relay 30 it tends to be intermittent (I've had mine fail twice, and in both cases it would start after a few tries) Mine always cranked over, but failed to start in this case on the key (you could leave it 15-20 mins try again and it would fire)

 

If its consistant then the key is more likely the suspect - has it been dropped if its a remote type key and fallen apart, or have the batteries in the fob been changed? If so then its possible for the pats chip to fall out, with this missing the immobilser will not deactivate.

 

I brought a new relay from GSF - theres a part number on the relay that can be used to order it from there. Or any ford dealer or VW should be able to supply it in theory. Though you should be able to get it from pretty much any motor factors if you have the part in your hand to do so.

 

It might be worth popping the casing off the relay to check - the fault with them tends to be solder joints that have gone dry (broken apart) and can be repaired with some simple solder work if you have access to a soldering iron (or know someone who has)

 

With the door led does it flash when the car is locked every so often - if not theres a good chance its been disconnected if the door card has been removed at some point.

[brooksiexxxxx]

Ive tried both the keys, (which operate the c locking ok) and tried removing the transponder coil from the column, its the same with or without transponder,which leads me to think this may be an immobiliser problem..

I had a look into the fusebox/relay box, and could not see relay 30 or 27, are they somewhere else?

The keys have not been apart so Im sure thats not the problem.

The led works/flashes when the car is locked, but I seem to remember either someone telling me or on one of the forums that the led should flash when the key is inserted into barrel and turned to ignition on as if its ready to start, if it does not flash the system has not 'seen' the key...is this right or am I dreaming?(it was some time ago.:)

I cant hear the fuel pump start up either when the ignition is switched on..can anyone who has a galaxy the same have a look at their led and confirm if it flashes when the key is put in the barrel and turned to position 2 please?

Thanks!!!

[BrianH]

Ive tried both the keys, (which operate the c locking ok) and tried removing the transponder coil from the column, its the same with or without transponder,which leads me to think this may be an immobiliser problem..

I had a look into the fusebox/relay box, and could not see relay 30 or 27, are they somewhere else?

The keys have not been apart so Im sure thats not the problem.

The led works/flashes when the car is locked, but I seem to remember either someone telling me or on one of the forums that the led should flash when the key is inserted into barrel and turned to ignition on as if its ready to start, if it does not flash the system has not 'seen' the key...is this right or am I dreaming?(it was some time ago. :)

I cant hear the fuel pump start up either when the ignition is switched on..can anyone who has a galaxy the same have a look at their led and confirm if it flashes when the key is put in the barrel and turned to position 2 please?

Thanks!!!

 

THat sounds like the relay - both keys would eliminate the pats chip.

 

Central locking has nothing to do with the immobiliser - one can work without the other in both cases.

 

Relay 30 is on the second level of the fusebox - I Think the back one (its got the top level you can see, then two levels behind that)

 

If when your starting the car (or trying to start it) the door led flashes rapidly then it does sound like relay 30.

 

Sorry for the slow reply - I don't get emails for replies anymore, so its only when i remember to look that i see anything new.

[BrianH]

There is a couple of other possibilites if the door led doesn't flash - you may have a faulty ignition switch (mk1 one just clips onto the back of the ignition barrel, assume mk2 is the same). Or the mk2 fusebox melting issue if you haven't already ruled that out - do you get any dashboard lights coming on as you turn the key?

[sparky Paul]

When my relay 30 failed, I could spin the engine over but it wouldn't start. An hour later, after towing it back home, it started first turn. :huh:

 

Mine is a late mk.1 with the mk.2 electrics, my LED illuminates solid for a second or two when you turn the key in the ignition, then goes out. I presume this indicates all is well and that the key is recognised.

 

If you see the LED flash every few seconds when the car is locked, but not when you insert the key and turn, that points to immobiliser - either some fault present, or it's not seeing the ignition on. As Brian says above, fuses or ignition switch are possibilities.

 

It's a while since I looked at the start circuit diagram, but IIRC there is a immobiliser relay in the starter circuit which your RAC man may have bypassed. Whilst this would allow the starter to spin, the immobiliser is also tied into the car's ECU to prevent it firing up. At least you know the starter is good.

 

If all fails, you may have to find someone with Ford IDS/WDS to see exactly what's going on with the immobiliser.

Edited November 4, 2016 by sparky Paul

[brooksiexxxxx]

Got the Gal towed to a garage who had a look, and diagnosed relay 30...they had a spare test relay so in it went and problem solved!!!

Just got to put the trims back on around the fusebox, so thanks to everybody's input got there in the end. For the record my gal would not crank and I could not hear the fuel pump start either so it looks like relay 30 can throw up a multitude of symptoms...beware!!!

 

I have had the case off the faulty one and can see the soldered joints are all cracked so any one of them could be the culprit...anyway a massive thankyou to everybody who helped with this tricky one...!!!

[BrianH]

Get some new solder onto them and keep it as a spare if i were you!

[sparky Paul]

It was always worth a try with a relay. The rapid flashing LED that is normally seen with a faulty relay 30 is a fault indication from the immobiliser, I think we have all learned something here that any apparent immobiliser related issue could point to relay 30.

 

Inside the relays, it's the lead-free solder that causes the problems, particularly on the larger connections where plenty of heat is required for the solder to wet properly. Remove all the old stuff from the larger yoke connections using a sucker or desolder braid, and resolder using a good quality resin-cored lead solder.

Edited November 14, 2016 by sparky Paul

[brooksiexxxxx]

Just thought I would add a note, when my Gal was in fault condition the door LED did not light, and this shows that the correct key has been inserted and the immobiliser is disarmed, and the fuel pump can be heard priming when the key is turned to pos 2, ready to crank, with normal dash lights and indicators on, so its good to know this to eliminate the immobiliser. I guess the immob is fed from relay 30, and thats why the diagnostic kit could not get a response from it when tested, anyway thanks again for your help and suggestions...it all helped to solve the problem!!