Gearbox Issues

[Cheeky]

(not sure why i have put GEARBOX when i meant CLUTCH! - cant seem to change it!)

 

I have a ford galaxy 1.9TD 2003 plate....

 

In december 2009 the clutch failed on me... car had done 68k miles.... was towed to the main dealer... & they fit a new clutch (friction plate, pressure plate & bearing) ....

 

In april 2012 the clutch failed on me again... The AA man who came to tow me said he thought it was the master cylinder... as did the garage i was towed to... (i was on holiday at the time) ... i had a new master cylinder, the release bearing was replaced as it was leaking & the clutch plate was replaced as it was contaminated with hydrolic fluid... I had only done 27k miles since the other clutch was fit.... i do tow a caravan... but only take it out 4 times a yr .... & the guy at the garage showed me the clutch plate saying its obvious i dont hammer the clutch as it was still looking like new! ...

 

I contacted Ford saying i was not impressed, quoted them the sales of goods act & asked them could they investigate why it failed so soon... i got a letter back saying it was a wear & tear item, carried only a 12month warranty & that they couldnt do anything...

 

In march this yr my clutch failed again.... the clutch was still under warranty... BUT.. i couldnt take it back to the garage as it was miles away from me ... as i had been on holiday at the time... so it was agreed i could take it to my local garage... the new clutch was sent & fitted... though the mechanic did say as my car had an LUK fly wheel... that the other parts should be that make too...  but he was sent Borg & Beck parts....

 

My car has been a bit iffy with power... iv either got too much power or not enough... the car feels rough & like its scrambling & not putting the power down.... popped it to my local garage & the guy says the clutch is slipping....

 

Im now pretty annoyed... i have no idea why my clutch is failing like this? ... is there something somebody is missing?

 

I have been driving 23yrs ... & i have had 6 cars before this car... not had a clutch go on any of the other ones... i drive the same way as always... & as pointed out earlier... the clutch plate was not worn so i know its not my driving thats the cause....

 

Please has anybody got any ideas?

Edited July 16, 2013 by Cheeky

[Cheeky]

Been asking around some Facebook friends who are mechanics for their thoughts...

 

As it seems there must be an underlying cause for it to keep failing?

 

So far its been suggested possible causes....

 

- Bearing on transmission or engine?

 

- Shaft going into the transmission at an angle (or an engine shaft) ?

 

- Dodgy hydraulic assembly?

 

- Air in fluid?

 

- Faulty flywheel?

 

Thoughts anybody?

[sparky Paul]

When the slave cylinder/release bearing leaked fluid, that clutch failure can be discounted as it can be put down to contamination of the friction plate with oil.

 

Were the garage absolutely certain that contamination was hydraulic oil, and not engine or gearbox oil?

 

Were the later failures due to worn friction plates, contamination or what?

 

The only way you are going to diagnose is to drop the clutch out again and see what's going on. The clutch could be slipping because the friction material is worn or contaminated, in which case the cause of this needs to be investigated and rectified. If the friction material looks okay, it points towards the cover plate, release bearing or associated hydraulics.

 

Any problems selecting gears from standstill with engine running before the failure?

Edited July 17, 2013 by sparky Paul

[Cheeky]

Thanks for your kind reply....

 

With the first ever failure... i was driving into town, struggled at a few of the lights to get it into gear & thought hmmm.. id best head for the garage, at which point i was only a few hundred yards away & i lost the pedal altogether... it sunk to the floor ... i dont have any of the parts...

 

The 2nd failure... i was driving to my holidays... stopped at some lights, went to put it into gear & the pedal just sank... there had been no forewarning of it about to go... both the AA man & the guy at the garage said it was hydraulic fluid... i have all the parts that were taken off, the plates are not worn... were just contaminated with fuid...

 

The 3rd failure this yr..... i went out to start the car up ... put my foot on the clutch to take off reverse gear.. & the pedal just sank... there was a puddle of fluid on the floor ... & once again no hydraulics to work the clutch... i have all the parts that were taken off.... again the plates are not worn... just contaminated with fuid...

 

So really i need to go & ask the garage to take the clutch out & see what is causing it to slip...  its never done this before on me.. just usualy gone without warning...

[Cheeky]

Rang the garage & he said to pull the clutch out to have a look & put it back again ... would be a huge labour charge for me....

 

He says its down to the fact that my flywheel is LUK & the other parts are a different make... that i need to ring up the guy who organised for it to be done under warranty & ask for the parts to be of the same make as the flywheel...

 

I dont know if this is true?

[sparky Paul]

Sounds like cobblers to me, all clutch parts should be made to pattern. Whilst it would always be preferable to fit friction plate and pressure plate as a pair, whoever manufactured the flywheel should make no difference, so long as it's the correct part and conforms to the original spec.

 

Your first 3 failures all sound like concentric slave cylinder failure. Even when the master cylinder was replaced, you say the slave was leaking, so I would guess that the slave cylinder was the problem there. Personally, I would only replace this with a genuine Ford part, it's a big job to replace if it fails. 3 failures like this on the trot sounds very unlikely, either the replacements were of very poor quality, or something else is not right.

 

I would be making absolutely sure that the flywheel and clutch fitted are the correct parts for the car, there are some subtle variations for the clutch parts on the diesels, and the supplier's reg. number databases are not always correct. It's unlikely, but one possible option is that incorrect clutch parts could be allowing the release bearing to over-extend to the point that fluid leaks.

 

Is the flywheel a dual mass type? Solid flywheels usually last the car out.

[Cheeky]

It was the main ford dealer who replaced the clutch after the first failure.... the garage who replaced the 2nd failure was highly recommended by the AA patrolman... & the local garage who fit the 3rd under warranty is a busy well used garage...

 

The parts keep being replaced whether by ford parts or otherwise, failed no difference to whats been fiitted... but nobody seems to find the cause of it...something must be causing the fault to happen... but what?

[Cheeky]

I have no idea what flywheel type it is... just that its LUK make... Im guessing its the original part still on the car? ...

[sparky Paul]

Three slave cylinders failing on the trot is highly unusual, there must be an underlying cause. Fluid on the floor means the slave cylinder piston seal is damaged or the piston has over-extended. I would be amazed if slave cylinder failure ever had anything to do with what brand of clutch plate is fitted.

 

First of all, I would rule out any chance of incorrect clutch parts.

 

I would next suspect the fluid. When was it last replaced? You could either get a sample tested for contamination, or just make sure the pipework is thoroughly flushed with new fluid, and possibly replace any flexibles. Failure due to a damaged or scored cylinder piston can leave particles of metal in the fluid, which is why it should be replaced with either master or slave cylinder, but rarely is.

 

If the pressure plate and flywheel are both thouroughly cleaned, you should only need a new friction plate - but labour charges are the killer on these jobs.