Door Wiring Problems [1.9 Td 1997 New Owner] Help: How To Access And F

[jasonic]

Hello, I just bought 1997 1.9td Galaxy today. Love the car - comfy and nice to drive, but several electric issues to fix .. 

 

 

QUESTIONS.. 

Q 1:  When the connector socket on the car body is slipping inside, HOW do you get access to hold it while putting the securing ring back on? 

It looks like one might be able to get at it from somewhere behind the inside fusebox, but I do not want to make things even worse.

 

Q 2: Am I likely to find a full door electrics 2nd hand, or is there a new replacement for such?

The driver side door panel has been attacked by a frustrated hasty monkey .. drywall screws, pieces cut off etc. and inside lots of old stickey  black fabric tape over parts of the wiring. I ordered repair manuals last night from amazon in english [Haynes], also its french cousin [Revue Technique] so hopefully I'll be able to help myself as well as find the right vocabulary to use here in France where I am.

 

Q 3: Is there any simple/expedient way I can at least get all the windows closed untiI I fix this all properly? Rain is forecast for all next week here.

 

THE SITUATION

1. As sold to me, the windows went down ok using driver or passenger door switch controls.

    But to make them go back up  again, must stop, get out and turn the key lock fully clockwise. The passenger window would close ok then driver. I was shown this behavior half a dozen times by seller  - started searching on-line for advice. I bought the car anyway (it was cheap), went for country drive, filled her up, But immediately restarting then I could not get the driver window to go back up. Passenger window still responding  :excl:

 

2. After reading forum posts here on door wiring loom problems -- windows and locking strangeness, I printed out : Checking Wires From Door To Pillar FAQ with photos,

http://www.fordgalaxy.org.uk/ford/index.php?/topic/8401-checking-wires-from-door-to-pillar/&do=findComment&comment=64104  << Thank you!

 

Managed to carefully take the driver side connector out of b-pillar socket. Put it back gently.

No change in function. Tried again. same. 3rd time however, I could not get it back in the connector on b-pillar, as socket was now loose and receeding. arggh!

 

3. So I now do no have any locking or windows working - as it is not connected. Sudden rain storm arrived. Thew a tarp over the car [front windows stuck open/down] cam  inside to read up some more and ask for help here. 

 

So Glad to find this forum. My previous vehicle was 1995 VWTransporter. Great in many ways, but it also had tricky electrical trouble initially. VWT4 Uk forum was brilliantly helpful. 

 

Thank you for any advice,

Jason

Edited March 23, 2013 by jasonic

[gregers]

welcome to the forum,well it looks like you found the search button then lol.

 

sounds to me either you have wiring problems,lots of info/posts about the subject.

or maybe the switch is fubared?

try using the switch from the passenger side and give that a go.

iirc global opening/closing operated by the key in the lock can also be done by the rear hatch lock?

[jasonic]

Thanks for the welcome...

 

The rear hatch lock on mine only locks itself... I suspect not working fully, as it should ?

 

But your suggestion prompted me to try again passenger side lock outside >> and its window closed fully

Yay~phew! 

 

Now, how to get the driver side loom reconnected asap,  or at least to get the window closed UP again, so I drive around in this endless rain ? :-(

 

Yes the switches need replacing [seller warned me].

The wiring between the door and car = "GAITOR" ? pretty sure also needs replacing.

From my reading here, I am still not clear how one finds out if the wires are broken/shorting.

Looks like it might be easier & better to take it all door electrics out and replace with new..

 

And the crucial connected socket for the door harness is pain to get at it or get hold of.

Right now try to put the door harness back into its socket is impossible, as there is nothing holding the socket.

I have the retaining ring, described+shown in posts/faq, but how the devil do you pull the wiring socket back out AND hold it in place while fixing the retaining ring back on it?

 

Maybe it is better to just take the whole door off ???

 

[gregers]

from reading various posts/threads on here even if the outer sleeve of the cables are intact doesnt mean the actual wires are sound,a multi meter will help you here.

iirc there was someone on here recently who had trouble reconnecting the socket but think he sussed it in the end?

if your rear hatch isnt working as it should then again its probably the wiring on the right hand side top thats at fault.

there is a write up on the correct way of joining new wires and re-soldering etc found in the faqs.

[BrianH]

Thanks for the welcome...

 

The rear hatch lock on mine only locks itself... I suspect not working fully, as it should ?

 

But your suggestion prompted me to try again passenger side lock outside >> and its window closed fully

Yay~phew! 

 

Now, how to get the driver side loom reconnected asap,  or at least to get the window closed UP again, so I drive around in this endless rain ? :-(

 

Yes the switches need replacing [seller warned me].

The wiring between the door and car = "GAITOR" ? pretty sure also needs replacing.

From my reading here, I am still not clear how one finds out if the wires are broken/shorting.

Looks like it might be easier & better to take it all door electrics out and replace with new..

 

And the crucial connected socket for the door harness is pain to get at it or get hold of.

Right now try to put the door harness back into its socket is impossible, as there is nothing holding the socket.

I have the retaining ring, described+shown in posts/faq, but how the devil do you pull the wiring socket back out AND hold it in place while fixing the retaining ring back on it?

 

Maybe it is better to just take the whole door off ???

 

 

You can get to the back of the socket fairly easily if you take the lower panel that covers the fuseboard area off (the panel thats attached by screws). Once you have got that off you can then relocate the connector easily.

If you can get the passenger side to go down from the drivers switch and no other operation on that side but it works from the passenger side you probabbly have a broken red wire inside the rubber gaitor that needs rejoining. Just pull the rubber boot back and you should be able to rejoin it to get the window shut. Unless as you say something else is up with the wiring.

 

You might be successful in getting a replacement door loom but it may be no better than what you have currently - the broken wires issue seems fairly common. You'd also need one that matches your car (if you have electric mirrors you need the loom from one that has the same etc).

[BrianH]

to confirm - the gaitor is the rubber black flexiable boot that goes between the door and the connector (the bit that flexes with the hinges to allow the wires to get to the door). I'm not sure how well it translates so it may not be immediately clear what bit it means in the instructions.

[jasonic]

You can get to the back of the socket fairly easily if you take the lower panel that covers the fuseboard area off (the panel thats attached by screws). Once you have got that off you can then relocate the connector easily.

If you can get the passenger side to go down from the drivers switch and no other operation on that side but it works from the passenger side you probabbly have a broken red wire inside the rubber gaitor that needs rejoining. Just pull the rubber boot back and you should be able to rejoin it to get the window shut. Unless as you say something else is up with the wiring.

 

You might be successful in getting a replacement door loom but it may be no better than what you have currently - the broken wires issue seems fairly common. You'd also need one that matches your car (if you have electric mirrors you need the loom from one that has the same etc).

 

Yes = this so very helpful.. thank you

 

Today with sunshine to assist, I took the two small clip-on plastic panels off the lower section of the fusebox.

Giving me just enough finger access [not quite visual] to push the loom socket back out, and hold it while re-attaching its ring.

 

Removed the foam insulation and speaker - to see better around loom and window mechaism.

Fiddled with the loom, poked and peeked around. Next removed the double window switch  and the mirror 4-way. took them all apart and cleaned some. After putting it all back together, reconnecting gaitor, I was able to regain former control of Passenger window = progress!

 

And bonus = now am able to remote control both mirrors left/right action, but not yet any up/down control.

This had not worked at all before :-)

 

-- passenger window responds to interior DOWN switching, but only closes UP using outside door key held fully clockwise.

-- driver side window does not move at all >> tarp over it again tonight

-- but I do hear some subtle relay-like clicking sounds, and some louder pulsed whirring noise when I use the key to raise the passenger window. 

   I'm guessing that whirring sound is not the window motor, but is the locking servo ?

 

Meanwhile, as per advice, I check rear door upper right gaitor. I see someone had taken a big bite out of it. Some wires right there look very cleanly CUT, else a connection has completely come apart ?

I took some photos today, will try to organize &upload  later.

 

My object is fix this and I hope finally document a little further for others. 

 

Is there any MAP of the door loom and its various connectors -- like a photograph with colored photoshop overlay for  wires+connectors??

If not would be great if we can create one to add to the faq. 

 

You are likely right that an old loom may not be any better than just fixing the existing.

What I still do not understand is the process to determine which wires in teh loom and at the gaitor are good/bad?

 

Should one disconnect and then take the whole loom out the door?

Or does one just patiently match a multimeter to the connector ends of each wire following its color-stripes?  

 

Also gloppy old black fabric tape around wires in mine -- is that normal, or traces of some previous repair attempt?

 

Is there any spray or solution to use on these connectors or in and around micro-switches to remove corrosion/improve the electrical contact? Today I just scratch a little with fine screwdriver.

best-practice anyone?

 

thanks

~Jason

Edited March 24, 2013 by jasonic

[seatkid]

 

 

You are likely right that an old loom may not be any better than just fixing the existing.

What I still do not understand is the process to determine which wires in teh loom and at the gaitor are good/bad?

 

Should one disconnect and then take the whole loom out the door?

Or does one just patiently match a multimeter to the connector ends of each wire following its color-stripes?  

 

Also gloppy old black fabric tape around wires in mine -- is that normal, or traces of some previous repair attempt?

 

Is there any spray or solution to use on these connectors or in and around micro-switches to remove corrosion/improve the electrical contact? Today I just scratch a little with fine screwdriver.

best-practice anyone?

 

1.Wires in the gaitor- due to the quality of cable used, the insulation goes brittle where it flexes, it cracks and allows air to the copper wire, which corrodes on exposure to air along with humidity and chemicals from the insulation. A visual inspection will soon find the faulty wires - they are usually broken apart or the insulation is falling off/crazed leaving the core (usually oxidised) exposed. These faulty wires need to be snipped back to good wire on both sides and a new piece spliced in. Because of the lack of space, soldering in a new piece with flexible rubber sleeving to protect the joints is probably the best solution.

 

2. The looms are bound in fabric tape (or gloppy old black tape as you put it) - not individual wires though....The wires in the gaitors are not bound in tape, but are free to allow flexing.

 

3 No such thing as magic contact spray. To remove light corrosion its best to use a toothbrush and brake cleaning solvent (£2.50 for a spray can from toolstation). Dont scratch with a screwdriver - this will remove the contact material which is a thin layer of a precious metal - leading to a permanently poor connection.

Edited March 24, 2013 by seatkid

[BrianH]

Your best bet for diagrams will probably be the Haynes manual you already ordered, although TBH they are less than perfect so don't blindly believe all they say....

 

Your whirring sound could be any of the motors really. Easiest way to tell would be unplugging parts inside the door till you find the culprit. Its possible the window regulator has broken in some way but more likly to just be down to the wires. And to find the wires you will probably find them broken as Seatkid says above, Only thing i'd add on this is if you can't see any dig a bit deeper as they seem to find their way up inside the gaiter if broken for a while so you may be unable to see them at first. Mine also broke off very close to the connector so was fairly easy to miss at first. The faulty wires seem to be blamed on a number of factors including others have said the lack of an offset on the connection which makes sense as other cars i've had haven't had issues like this but do have them offset.

[jasonic]

The faulty wires seem to be blamed on a number of factors including others have said the lack of an offset on the connection which makes sense as other cars i've had haven't had issues like this but do have them offset.

 

hmm sorry, I don't understand what offset on the connection means..?

[jasonic]

 

3 No such thing as magic contact spray. To remove light corrosion its best to use a toothbrush and brake cleaning solvent (£2.50 for a spray can from toolstation). Dont scratch with a screwdriver - this will remove the contact material which is a thin layer of a precious metal - leading to a permanently poor connection.

 

aha! glad  I asked...

 

But is ok to scratch / file / emorypaper ordinary crimp connectors ??

Or should I be using an electric toothbrush with your recpmmended break cleaning fluid from now on & forever?

btw, what chemistry is this fluid?

[jasonic]

Your whirring sound could be any of the motors really. Easiest way to tell would be unplugging parts inside the door till you find the culprit. Its possible the window regulator has broken in some way but more likely to just be down to the wires. 

 

sounds sensible.. thanks for spelling this out to me.

 

Based on all the advice here, I feel it is probably door wire loom connection or continuity problem.

Until 1hr after I had bought the car on Saturday afternoon, the windows were consistently semi-disfunctional

= wind down, but not up, except by turning  key outside

 

The seller showed me what to do until I get it all fixed - advising new window switch to remedy it. 

Soon as I can, I will get install a new switch, especially as I learn now I've damaged switch when I opened it up and scratched its contacts today. 

[jasonic]

if your rear hatch isnt working as it should then again its probably the wiring on the right hand side top thats at fault.

there is a write up on the correct way of joining new wires and re-soldering etc found in the faqs.

 

Should the rear hatch work same as driver or passenger doors ?

[1997 Mk1]

[gregers]

if the wires are broken here it can cause a lot of problems and this is another 1 of the common faults on these cars.

as you are checking the wires in the doors this is something else thats worth looking at aswell.

[BrianH]

hmm sorry, I don't understand what offset on the connection means..?

 

Not in line with each other - one will be higher than the other. look at a different car sometime and you should see the connection drops down to reduce the strain on the wires. Not something you can actually sort out but it seems to add to the problem (its a poor design thats all).

[smudger]

just goin slightly offtopic with this sort of but when i pulled the haynes manual out for my wiring well it was alll wrong i have the 2.3 ghia x 1999 and the wiring didnt match hunting the forums to my door and window problem, all pointing to the doors, but my problem was the passenger door side the plastic trim on the floor i took this off was around 10-12 red red/white wires that had sum sort of connection that was rotten re joined them all up and everything worked.

[jasonic]

well ~ getting closer today...

 

- my copy of Revue Technique arrived in morning post

- local breakers' yard {la casse} just got a similar Galaxy in..  

So hoping tomorrow I may have a bunch of better door, loom + switch, and mirror parts to swap in :-) 

http://www.prixing.fr/images/product_images/53a/53a4e1a2782d4e68808a8ec14cb3d9c6.jpg

 

thanks for all your comments

[jasonic]

hello ~ some progress, & some questions..

 

I was unable to find the fault in the door loom myself.

So I handed it over to local garage. Mechanic replaced a section of old wires in loom of the back door. And got the windows working, and car locking, after some initial difficulty. Said the wiring faults were not in the door loom, but in the car body - loom wires between the fusebox and  the door socket connector.

 

So now I can control windows up down and lock the car ok :-)

 

BUT 4 problems remain:

A: Driver side door switch now works reversed :: up-is-down / down-is-up :-(

question:

-- is this as simple as switching the wires ?

-- if so where best to to do that??  

 

B: If I use the key to lock the car and HOLD the key fully clockwise to close windows, then the driver window OPENS and cannot be closed again,  except manually from inside !*#

 

C: I changed the key FOB batteries, and tried reprogramming many times. But I still have no remote control use of it.

I notice sometimes, trying to lock the car manually with this key does not succeed. It's confusing...

But the other two plain keys will lock/and unlock  quickly and reliably all doors.

 

..seems like the remote locking is half-programmed ~ half-functional. Have to be careful with it.

The other day I thought I had locked all, returned a few minutes later to find not so, with driver window half=open.

Now I only use the plain keys, until this is fully solved.

any ideas ?? 

 

thanks

[BrianH]

hello ~ some progress, & some questions..

 

I was unable to find the fault in the door loom myself.

So I handed it over to local garage. Mechanic replaced a section of old wires in loom of the back door. And got the windows working, and car locking, after some initial difficulty. Said the wiring faults were not in the door loom, but in the car body - loom wires between the fusebox and  the door socket connector.

 

So now I can control windows up down and lock the car ok :-)

 

BUT 4 problems remain:

A: Driver side door switch now works reversed :: up-is-down / down-is-up :-(

question:

-- is this as simple as switching the wires ?

-- if so where best to to do that??  

 

B: If I use the key to lock the car and HOLD the key fully clockwise to close windows, then the driver window OPENS and cannot be closed again,  except manually from inside !*#

 

C: I changed the key FOB batteries, and tried reprogramming many times. But I still have no remote control use of it.

I notice sometimes, trying to lock the car manually with this key does not succeed. It's confusing...

But the other two plain keys will lock/and unlock  quickly and reliably all doors.

 

..seems like the remote locking is half-programmed ~ half-functional. Have to be careful with it.

The other day I thought I had locked all, returned a few minutes later to find not so, with driver window half=open.

Now I only use the plain keys, until this is fully solved.

any ideas ?? 

 

thanks

 

i think if i remember from when i had mine out you can turn the switch round once you take the insert out. Are both switches wrong? - if so turn it round should sort that out. Its keyed so won't be as simple as reversing the connector. if it is turned around the left switch will operate the drivers window instead of the right (assuming you have a RHD model that is). If its LHD i think the right hand switch will do the drivers window. You never said one way or the other so assume it could be either as your in France.

 

I'd guess at a stuck switch or reversed wiring going to the door lock (theres a 3 pin connector on there with two switches). Bearing in mind that you have had other bits of wiring repaired it may be down to something connected back to front here?

 

Might be a stuck or broken switch in the remote. Not got remote locking on mine so don't know if these are prone to wearing out like others are.

[jasonic]

i think if i remember from when i had mine out you can turn the switch round once you take the insert out. Are both switches wrong? - if so turn it round should sort that out. Its keyed so won't be as simple as reversing the connector. if it is turned around the left switch will operate the drivers window instead of the right (assuming you have a RHD model that is). If its LHD i think the right hand switch will do the drivers window. You never said one way or the other so assume it could be either as your in France.

 

I'd guess at a stuck switch or reversed wiring going to the door lock (theres a 3 pin connector on there with two switches). Bearing in mind that you have had other bits of wiring repaired it may be down to something connected back to front here?

 

Might be a stuck or broken switch in the remote. Not got remote locking on mine so don't know if these are prone to wearing out like others are.

 

thank you

car is LHD

the main switch unit is on the left but is broken and chewed up. Local breakers yard might have a part in stock may be tomorrow may be someday

 

meanwhile .. I took the car back to the garage to get my AC sorted.

Gently carefully pointed out that while before fixed something, they had also made others worse the previous time

specifically, driver window now had really jerky clattering movement, and its switch inverted. They agreed to look at it.

 

By the time I returnedn they had taken driver door all apart, and removed the window completely - mechanic was off working on some other job. Some while later I looked in, and everything was back and working really nicely.

 

I asked the mechanic where the problem had been exactly ?

He just shrugged, paused, smiled shyly and said:   "Took everything out ~ Put all back ~ Now works !" 

I am translating..He's young, Spanish, living working now in France. 

He speaks french in very thick Spanish accent ~ so a little hard for me to understand.

glad he fixed it, wish I knew more precisely the repair though. 

 

Locks all work, and windows open & close correctly, smoothly from inside and out. 

They did not charge anything for this work!

 

The only function now missing:  the remote key fob still does nothing.

Edited April 8, 2013 by jasonic

[BrianH]

Sounds like you have got a good result there. Not sure on the remote keyfob you might be able to swap bits around to make it work. Your manual might give more info on this otherwise have a look round on the forum there should be some info here on doing that if its possible (I don't have remote locking so not sure what the keys are like for it).