2002 1.9 Ghia Aircon Stopped

[Scorpiorefugee]

I think my age is catching up with me 'cos the grey matter keeps returning 'file not found'. My gal has been relatively trouble free for some time but now the air con has died, just in time for the warm weather. I used it a couple of days ago on a 60 mile trip. It came on for a while and I switched it off and noticed a faint smell of gas. I switched it back on a while later and it worked with no smell but the smell came back when I switched it off again. Next time it failed to blow cold. Probably empty I thought but later when I restarted the display didn't flash but it still didn't work. I did notice the lights dimmed briefly when I switched it to AUTO but that was it. Next morning I tried it from cold but there was no click from the solenoid and no fan near the rad. I got a Halfords top up can from a few years ago but that wouldn't put anything in and the pressure gauge was in the red, i.e. over pressure. (With the can disconnected)

I remember having a bit of a problem a while ago and resetting the climate control box fixed it and one other fact, it came back from the garage about a year ago and the air con wasn't working. Made a change 'cos it usually comes back with crushed cills. It started working again a couple of days later and remained that way until now.

 

Q1.Can anyone remind me how to reset the control.?

 

Q2. given the diatribe above can anyone remind my feeble brain where I should start?

 

Maybe I should start by resetting my brain. Bashing against a wall used to work.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Scorpiorefugee

[Scorpiorefugee]

Minor correction and update....

The Rad fan does run when set to AUTO but the pump solenoid does not activate. The pump can be turned by hand but I can't as yet get the damned plug off to check supply and I have a 5am start tomorrow :-( . Fuses 16 21 & 22 are OK.

 

It would be helpful to know how the normal control algorithm was put together.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Scorpiorefugee

[alan_131]

File not found... should have that tatooed on my head....

I suspect you probably know a lot more about this than me, but the ac pressure switch flags over as well as under pressure i think - but would have thought that should have been a "flash the panel" error too..

Not noticed the lights dimming on my mk1 when I turn auto on - is this normal?

Been a couple of topics last few days re low-temp lockout

Agree about the control alogrithm - this sort of information seems a) vital and B) unavailable....

[Scorpiorefugee]

Thanks Alan. I've spent most of my working life (50 yrs) repairing electrical/electronic devices and seldom found any that couldn't be diagnosed with knowledge of what they were supposed to do, a few observations and minimal electrical tests but it all got much more difficult when designers and software engineers started treating us all like idiots.

 

Back to the plot. With a pressure reading approx twice normal and no added gas the only thing that makes sense is a fully closed expansion valve together with something that is stopping the pressure leaking backwards. I wish I knew more about how these things are put together. B)

 

Then again, even if I could work it out I'd still have to take it to the young chap that has all the gear and knows how to use it. Fortunately I do know one but he's not cheap.

 

Perhaps I should just settle for a bath chair and a nice young nurse to push me around. :blush:

[gregers]

are kwik fit still doing there deals,might be worth a punt m8,to just take it to them and see what gets thrown up.

 

who knows if as you say there is over pressure then they will be able to reduce it properly(fingers crossed)

[Scorpiorefugee]

Hello Gregers. Good to see you're still a full timer here. I'm hoping to get back to Eastbourne soon for a gathering of the cousins and was last there about a year ago. Didn't recognise the old place and I'd have been in deep trouble if it hadn't been for my old Tom Tom.

Re Quick Fit, based on past experience I'd put them a few places lower than Ford but they were down right scoundrels as opposed to just incompetent. To be fair, I gave up on both of them many years ago. Add to that I'm probably just plain stubborn as just about every problem I've had with this cantankerous lump of engineering I've had to diagnose myself with the help of the good folks on this site, so I'm still hoping for a bit of scientific diagnosis instead of the usual 'keep spending until we get lucky or you run out of money' approach. Nevertheless, I shall still probably end up going back to a very good and honest local chap who has fixed the aircon properly 3 times already but it has given me an excuse to get back and have a good rummage around this site.

[alan_131]

Just a thought but if the system is overpressure on the low side - assume it's the same both sides as your compressor not run for a while - could it be that at some point in the past (maybe when garage sent it back without ac working) they'd overfilled it without telling you? Given it the dual evap charge perhaps? Now in the very hot weather the system reads overpressure and won't start (I'd assume that the switch is simple pressure and not temp. compensated) If it was this, then might be worth trying at the coolest part of the day. I've also read that it's not hard to inadvertently overfill with the refill aerosol, but don't know if this is right. I think the guage on these cans attaches to the low pressure port , is that right?

 

Do you know what the tri-state pressure switch is putting out? Are you getting anything from vcds?

 

I used kwik fit to refill mine (because it was empty and I assumed a leak) and they were quite helpful - vac'd it for 20 mins, filled it correctly and it works a month later. Always a bit reluctant to use them (scratched paint from an airline dragged over car with no rubber buffers, couldn't start my automatic (because it was in "drive") , nearly dropped a car I'd only had a day off the four-poster when "the jack slipped out" leaving the car slewed across the lift resting on the front chassis member) but watch them very carefully now and don't let them do anything critical apart from tyres...

[gregers]

Hello Gregers. Good to see you're still a full timer here. I'm hoping to get back to Eastbourne soon for a gathering of the cousins and was last there about a year ago. Didn't recognise the old place and I'd have been in deep trouble if it hadn't been for my old Tom Tom.

 

 

yes m8 still here,aint going anytime soon.

yes again m8,eastbourne is a changing,probably like many other places.they keep building etc.still dont make the place any cheaper.

which area do you visit then m8?

[Scorpiorefugee]

Alan, Thanks for the input. It all makes sense but I'm having trouble finding time to get into the nooks and crannies at the moment. It hasn't been refilled at all for a couple of years and the top up can couldn't make headway against the high pressure. It was working and failed to start after a break of 10 mins. The VCDs are clear and the pressure switch seems to have reacted as the pump solenoid has stopped and the fan in on. All logical for overpressure. Climate ctl display all normal and can't be sure if the pressure measuring connection makes a good connection on the other side of the system but reads 0.

As far a quick fit are concerned I had tyres fitted and they told me the tracking was off. He got underneath hit one track rod with a large spanner and charged the equivalent of £30. Another time I went in with what turned out to be a bearing problem and they diagnosed shock absorbers on the basis of leaking fluid. I later found that they were air filled dampers. I haven't been back since - 25 years.

 

Gregers, We're a bit scattered but our last gathering took over 3 tables at the Toby (I think) in the marina area. I've one cousin living close, Brian Martin, Who set up and ran a drop on facility for recovering druggies for many years. One of my uncles, Ron Loveland RIP, still holds the record for most goals scored in a season for Eastbourne FC as well as playing cricket for the town and county about 55/60 years ago.

[gregers]

not a football or cricket fan but that's impressive.

quite nice down at the marina ain't it.

[Scorpiorefugee]

Gregers, that Marina is a huge complex and it is very nice. I was trying to work out where the old trams used to run but gave up 'cos it was raining. They're down in Devon somewhere now and still in use.

Re the aircon, further checks with a full function interface revealed that there were no faults registered and that the pump was being activated so the only conclusion was faulty clutch solenoid. Proper pressure checks on a Bosch kit confirmed all pressures and content OK. So much for Halfords topup/test kit which showed pressure well over twice normal. Solenoid not servicable so quoted £180 plus VAT for exchange plus £40 clean out & refil and a bit for labour for remove and fit puts it in the low £300s and since I can't get near the price for the pump and even DIY still needs regassing it's a nobrainer.

It's still well over £1000 spent on air con in 4 years and all we get is more bl00dy rain!

 

Onwards and upwards..... and poorer. :( :( :(

 

 

PS, Anyone in North Worcs. got Aircon problems, talk to Adrian on 01299 824668 (Brian Norton in Stourport) It's a refreshing change to to find somone who actually diagnoses problems scientifically. By my reckoning I got a diagnosis, gas check and refil together with labour to change the pump for less that Frauds charge to read the codes.

[Scorpiorefugee]

There is a sequel to this - only one I hope!

They replaced the pump with a recon which actually looked brand new - bright shiny aluminium! It all worked well for a couple of days and then, while going around a corner (probably not relevant) at low speed there was a horrible graunching scraping noise which stopped almost immediately and I assumed i had picked up a bit of rubbish on the road. A few days later I noticed the aircon had stopped again but it wasn't convenient to go back but over the next couple of days we had the noise again briefly for a couple of days and on inspection there was a fine snow of finely milled aluminium coming from the pump area.

My guess that we had one of those cheap clone components fitted and the drive had just disintegrated so it all got changed under warranty with much apologising and no charge although I threw in a few quid for being honest and helpful as it was their supplier who was at fault.

Just for comparison, the part was costed at £190 + VAT and the whole bill was £340 inc VAT.

That brings the yearly total to about £1000 which is more than I have spent on fuel.

A bit of guessing and rounding for my motoring costs over 8 months inc. road fund but not insurance is about £2200 and looking at VAT, fuel duty, rates and other overheads suggests that Government and other bodies have taken all bar about £500 of that and a fair proportion of that remainder is parts.

It's all gone to pay for the fair and free society we enjoy. :unsure: