1.9 Tdi Engine Noise And No Power

[GhiaX1.9]

Hi

 

This is my first post so apologies if this turns out to have been covered before (I can't find anything!).

 

I'm currently having problems with my Galaxy having no engine power and sounding horrendous!

 

Here's a quick summary of recent events,

• Car noisy at idle due to tensioner. Booked into local garage for aux belt tensioner, aux belt and to check clutch pulley.
  
• Garage replaced belt and tensioner, advised my car doesn't have a clutch pulley and the pulley is fine.
  
• Car back to garage, who put another tensioner on.
  
• Car back to garage again. Advised tensioner bar slightly worn so would need to order in. They advised me to take the car away but when I started it it sounded like a truck and had no power when trying to accelerate. Straight back to garage who advised it sounded like it was pinking but I would have to take it back the following week and it was nothing to do with what they had done.
  
• Car back in, replaced tensioner bar and advised they can't find source of noise but alternator pulley is a little noisy when turning by hand. Asked about replacing that and they said they could try an clutch pulley.
  
• Car stayed in over the weekend and clutch pulley fitted. Noise at idle gone but garage still saying pinking is nothing the do with them.
  

The garage did say the air con pulley was smooth but a little slow.

 

I've tried disconnecting the MAF sensor and that made no difference.

 

Can anybody suggest what the cause of the noise and the reduced power is?

 

Any idea how I attach a sound clip? Would it be useful?

 

Thanks

[GhiaX1.9]

It's a 1999 1.9 TDI GhiaX 110

[seatkid]

IIRC 110 bhp AFN engine has a DMF - Dual Mass Flywheel - and so also has the infamous one way alternator clutch. Should have cost ~£50 to change.

 

From my experience I think you changed the belt tensioner for no good reason. And the tensioner arm most definitely unlikely, I cant see how this can be "slightly worn". - Bullshit time.

 

Without hearing the noise its impossible to judge, but its loud and rattly, especially under load at low speeds, it could very well be a broken DMF. Try searching the technical section for DMF symptoms.

 

A failing or broken DMF might be what knackered the Alternator clutch.

Edited June 30, 2012 by seatkid

[GhiaX1.9]

Thanks for your reply :45:

 

I've attached a sound clip of the noise.

 

The tensioner and arm were replaced on the garage's advice. The arm was free (following an argument with the garage) as they admitted it made no difference.

 

Garage charged £88 for the final visit which replaced the clutch pulley.

 

So a total of £210 for a new clutch pulley, belt and tensioner - I'm changing garages!

 

The engine is noisy with the clutch in or out, in gear or in neutral, it just seems to be related to the revs. Bit noisy at idle and gets a lots noisier with revs.

Edited June 30, 2012 by GhiaX1.9

[seatkid]

I take it the noise youre referring to is the Scania truck like noise when you press the throttle.....

 

Has it still got no power? Please describe this a little further. Lack of acceleration, gives up at x mph etc etc

 

Does it throw any smoke out? You may need someone to confirm this driving behind you.

 

They will have removed the air filter box when changing the tensioner/belts. Can you check the filter box has been reinstalled correctly, (with filter), lid closed and clipped and the pipes (box -> MAF, MAF to turbo etc. ) all connected correctly. Also check at the top back of the filter box there is a small diameter flexi pipe that comes out towards the bulkhead. Is that pipe still connected or broken off?

 

Either its an inlet pipe disconnected (after the MAF which would explain the crap performance) or it could be something much more serious.....but lets eliminate the simple things first. Perhaps a couple of photos of the engine around the filter box area might help. The photo below might help. Its a 90 bhp AHU but should be similar. Not the corrugated piping, the small pip at the top of the box and the way the MAF is fitted.

 

 

 

Also check they refitted the undertray,and your sills are not bent........like so many garages like to do.

[GhiaX1.9]

Yeah, the noise I meant is the truck type sound!

 

The car has still got no power. It accelerates very slowly (15 seconds to 30, 30 seconds to 40). Around town it's a struggle to get it above 40 and on the motorway I managed to get it up to 60 (eventually!).

 

Not sure about the smoke, not had chance to get somebody out behind me but nothing noticeable from the driver's seat.

 

The pipe out of the back of the MAF had a clip missing and the next join along had the clip on wonkey - first one not cable tied and the other adjusted. The pipe out of the back of the MAF had a small hole on the ribbed part - now covered in duct tape. The pipe into the back of the airbox was loose so I've I've bulked the end up with tape and it's now a snug fit.

 

I've not had chance to get under the car yet so I can't confirm anything to do with the pipes once they disappear down the back of the engine.

 

Despite the tweaks above the car is still the same.

 

The car has done 143k miles and we got it about 6k miles ago and I've no service history. Since I've had it it's had an oil and filter change and the air filter change (which was black).

 

Not sure what photos you want but here are some...

[GhiaX1.9]

When the car came back from the garage the wire to the MAF sensor was pulled across the top of the air pipe that leaves the airbox and was quite tight. Could they have damaged it?

[seatkid]

On your 7th picture (20120701_124351.jpg) on the right is a connector that is obviously not plugged in correctly. Reseat it, and see if it makes any difference.

 

 

The pipe out of the back of the MAF had a clip missing and the next join along had the clip on wonkey - first one not cable tied and the other adjusted. The pipe out of the back of the MAF had a small hole on the ribbed part - now covered in duct tape. The pipe into the back of the airbox was loose so I've I've bulked the end up with tape and it's now a snug fit.

 

I've not had chance to get under the car yet so I can't confirm anything to do with the pipes once they disappear down the back of the engine.

 

Well it looks like your garage has been somewhat negligent. The MAF to airbox connection has a large thick O ring that ensures a snug airtight fit.

 

 

And no clip? How those items got lost is difficult to imagine. A hole in the ribbed piping? Thats tough stuff its made of, how did that happen? No leaks are permissible after the MAF, all air has to be metered by the MAF. Wonky clip suggests they had that ribbed pipe off completely. So, I'm thinking, did they, take care to protect the open inlet from any foreign objects or bits of broken plastic getting in - the next port of call is the turbo. Were they stupid enough to run the engine without any piping/filtering fitted?

 

When the car came back from the garage the wire to the MAF sensor was pulled across the top of the air pipe that leaves the airbox and was quite tight. Could they have damaged it?

 

A good possibilty. Symptoms of a non working MAF are low performance, poor acceleration, but your performance figures are so poor, along with the truck noise, suggests to me that in addition to non functioning MAF , there maybe something got into the turbo or worse still, got past the turbo and lodged in an inlet valve.

Edited July 1, 2012 by seatkid

[seatkid]

Oh, I forgot to say, after checking that dodgy connector. Next step is unplug the MAF sensor, and run it to see if things improve, sound and performance wise.

[GhiaX1.9]

Firstly, thanks for helping with this!!

 

Connector plugged back in properly. Tried with MAF connected and disconnected - no change in noise and no noticeable change in performance.

 

The rubber seal for the MAF has never been on there but good to see the garage failed to notice! Hopefully I can be forgiven for not knowing there should be one :).

 

I'm fairly certain the hole in the piping is new and as you say that stuff is pretty tough.

 

"Were they stupid enough to run the engine without any piping/filtering fitted?" - While trying to address the aux belt noise the garage said the car ran quietly without it - if the airbox etc had to be removed to fit the belt I doubt they put it all back to try the car without the belt!! They also seemed to be getting very fed up of the car and complained on numerous occasions about the amount of time they were spending on it so I wouldn't be surprised if corners were being cut.

 

I've been asked not to go back to the garage but it seems that is for the best!

 

Hopefully I'll get chance to get under the car on Wednesday - is checking the turbo and inlets straightforward?

 

The tensioner that was bouncing around like crazy has been rubbing on a wire (pic below), I can't see the wire clearly enough to see if it has worn through both parts of the insulation.

 

The noise seems to be from the back left of the engine, around the oil filler area but lower down - hard to pin point the exact location from above.

[seatkid]

If you could get the car on a ramp, with the undertray off, from underneath you would probably be able to locate the source of the noise more precisely and check all the pipework/exhaust/egr piping etc. round the back of the engine. With them tugging off the ribbed piping up top, I suspect that the main inlet pipe has become disconnected or split.

 

Then my next move would be to remove the aux belts - if its like my AHU engine, you have a small v belt driving the power steering pump and water pump and a ribbed belt driving the alternator and a/c compressor. Run the engine (briefly) to see if any difference. Maybe the a/c pulley is loose (known problem - search the forum), or maybe they're still something wrong with the alternator pulley.

 

Then I would look at running a diagnostic (invest in a cheap VAGCOM lead).

Edited July 3, 2012 by seatkid

[GhiaX1.9]

Car jacked up and ready to start tomorrow. Quick look underneath and some badly joined pipes that I've now adjusted - no difference :-(

Pipe down back of engine is connected properly so no quick fix waiting there.

 

However, just found this....

http://www.fordgalaxy.org.uk/ford/index.php?/topic/20559-problem-solved-i-think/

 

Sounds like the first thing I should try tomorrow !!!

[seatkid]

I think you might have cracked it! :)

[GhiaX1.9]

Unfortunately not; the tensioner has only worn through the black outer, not the coloured ones inside. Also that connector is a nightmare to get to and both the torx bolts are seized so only checked cable in position.

 

I'm wondering if the first injector is at fault as surely the timing being out would make the whole engine noisy rather than just the very left? I don't really have enough mechanical knowhow to be messing with the injectors so seem to have a problem!!

Edited July 4, 2012 by GhiaX1.9

[Scorpiorefugee]

A little late maybe but I had a similar problem a few years ago. Sounds like an old taxi and drives like one. Fault codes indicated injection timing advanced. I went round in circles for a while and eventually, with the aid of a dual beam scope, diagnosed the needle lift injector which feeds back the timing to the ECU was sticking. (No 2 or 3 depending which end you count from. It has a wire connected to it. I fluked a repair by accidentally putting 5 litres of unleaded in one morning at 5:00 am when still half asleep. 200 miles later the fault cleared and never came back.

 

Out of interest, in my case, if I switched the ign off and on while moving and not disengaging drive the fault cleared for a while.

 

This one had all of the 'experts' scratching their heads and threatening all sorts of expensive try and see options. The injector alone was £400 plus.

 

Hope this helps.

[GhiaX1.9]

Hi

 

I tried a small amount of unleaded which didn't fix it and then tried Comma diesel magic on a 250+ mile run. There did seem to be an initial improvement but it never got remotely close to normal.

 

As the car didn't fix itself I decided to sell it and will be getting a Mondeo as we hardly ever used the space anyway. The buyer said he thought the timing was advanced but he seemed a lot more mechanically minded than me!