Serious Roof Condensation/water Problem

[vwsharan123]

Hi guys,

 

I have got a very big problem with my vw sharan 1.9 tdi 1999 (same as a seat alhambhra?). About 6-8

 

weeks ago, we got a heavy downpour and when i set off in the mpv and moved off, a small amount of water

 

(no more than a handful), dropping from the clock side.

 

I thought it was a sunroof seal leak, but since it was very minor, i left it. But the problem began to

 

get worse, albeit only slightly. I decided to take off all the internal roof lining about 2 weeks ago

 

and found lots of condensation formed at the top of the whole roof (front to back). I decided to dry it

 

off, leave it and keep an eye on it. As you guys will be aware, we got severe winter in uk and the

 

snow/ice have made the condensation problem even worse! The windows/windscreen are totally covered in

 

moisture and i really don't know what to do or what it could be. I took it to a local garage and the

 

guys seemed lost as to what the cause could be and charged me for nothing. I don't have enough income

 

to take it to a specialist and i'm hoping that if someone on here can give me an idea/advice, then at

 

least i can go to a better garage with some knowledge, otherwise they might rip me off.

 

Please could someone help me!

 

Thank You

 

 

Below are plently of photos to give you guys a better picture:-

 

 

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[gregers]

1st thing i would do is get some heat in the car,take it on a run with the heating on.

then make sure that all drain off pipes are in situ and tight and clear of any debris,if loose perhaps put a cable tie round them.

 

does your rear washer work?if not then im wondering if the pipe has come off and you have a swimming pool under your passenger floor ,info on a fix in the faqs in the technical section.

,hence the ammount of water,

 

or it could be a heater matrix problem have you lost any coolant?

or a leak round the windscreen?

there are too many variables to be certain so i would check everything,

 

welcome to the forum.

[vwsharan123]

hello gregers mate,

 

thank you very much for the warm welcome and helpful info. I checked out out the following:-

 

coolant - absolutely full to the max

 

drain pipes - as said before in the pics, they are slightly short/loose, however i tried using cable ties, but these keep breaking, so i plan to get metal jubilee clips and screw them on for a tight fit.

 

windscreen - i can't tell if the windscreen has any leaks, but before i took the roof lining off, i didn't have any water stay on the windscreen, so its unlikely

 

sunroof - now here is where i'm suspecting the problem as the sunroof seal seems to let water in, albeit very slight amount

 

heaters - The front heators work fine after the vehicle warms up, but the back/passenger heators are disconnected due to the roof lining coming off

 

rear washer - do you mean rear windscreen wiper? If so, then yes it works fine. The water jet blasts out okay too and there is no wet puddle.

Edited December 5, 2010 by vwsharan123

[gregers]

well then if your certain youve checked everything,then i would suggest you either have a leak from the windscreen (somewhere)or its to do with the sunroof,the sunroof is adjustable so it can close tighter onto the seal,i done my old mk1 but for the life of me i cant remmember how i done it:unsure:think it was more trial and error:rolleyes:.

 

jubilee clips are a good idea,poke some curtain rod down the drain pipes just to make sure theres no crud in them.

 

OH AND MAKE SURE YOUEITHER WEAR GLOVES OR HANDS ARE VERY CLEAN when replacing the headlining you dont want any marks on it.

[cyborg]

Hi there ,

 

Try removing the scuttle tray (plastic cover above engine about 1 metre in length ) clear all debris leaves and stuff if this area's blocked water flows through air filter

into car .if you have an aircompresser blast it all away if not its marigold's time. Then remove the front wheel plastic covers (rear ones )and remove stodge.

 

 

This Translated german web page covers most of it .

 

http://translate.goo...2Fnode%2F253143

 

Good luck

[vwsharan123]

@ gregers - not too sure about the windscreen mate as i don't know how to check with so much moisture around. I want to try and tighten the bolts of the sunroof, because i'm suspecting that more than anything else, but due to the severe ice problems, i want to wait until the weather is a little warmer and then try and tighten the bolts.

 

@ cyborgs - again, this could be the issue, but everything is frozen, so i might wait until the temperature warms up a degree or two.

 

thanks again

[markev]

i had the same problem,it was with the sunroof drain holes been blocked the water would fill the sunroof guttering,overspill and run down to the clock,the passenger foot well and under the passenger seat,a good clean with curtain wire and flush through then fix pipes wiTh little jubilee clips,,problem solved,for me anyway....good luck

[vwsharan123]

i had the same problem,it was with the sunroof drain holes been blocked the water would fill the sunroof guttering,overspill and run down to the clock,the passenger foot well and under the passenger seat,a good clean with curtain wire and flush through then fix pipes wiTh little jubilee clips,,problem solved,for me anyway....good luck

 

You might be right mark, but surely this would not cause such severe condensation?

[Mirez]

It could easily, you'll be suprised (well maybe not!) at how little an amount of water can condensate greatly when the outside temperature is so cold and the cabins heated.

 

Nobody seems to have noticed though:

 

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/7988/p1020261l.jpg

 

That pipe (is it copper?) is NOT standard fitment! The white/black pipes should go to the four plastic drain connectors of the sunroof directly - that extra bits ringing major alarm bells for me. Even from a basic plumbing point of view, the pipe the water is being transfered in to ALWAYS go's on the outside of the adjoining piece - unless there is some sort of rubber seal or something wedged in between the copper and inside of the sunroofs plug then there is no way a water tight seal is being created there and thats 100% where the waters coming from!

 

The question you need to ask now is why that white/black pipe is 8 or so inches short... wheres the rest of it gone? All I can think of is that its become disconnected at some point at dropped down in between the inner and outter wing - hopefully you'll be able to recover it back up from the wing and its not been chopped off at the other end by whoever bodged it in the first place.

 

The next concern is where that water is currently sitting, for the amount of condensation you have, something will be wet somewhere - my guess would be the sound deadening under the front carpet in that corner - as gregers has said you need to get some heat in her quickly, dry everything with paper towels / kitchen roll and heat it all up - use a hairdrier for the hard to reach bits.

 

Left like that you'll start to get corrosion in the wiring connectors and that'll be a major headache to sort.

Edited December 6, 2010 by Mirez

[vwsharan123]

Thanks Mirez,

 

Since the black/white striped pipe is short, someone must have added the small pipe to make up the loss, and its made out of plastic. There are no leaks coming from this pipe or any other, however it is pretty lose and you might get the odd drop or two.

 

I can find no wet patches/water on the floor or seats anywhere at all, so i can't understand where its coming from. I'm beginning to think its the air we breath out, as breath air is warm and full of moisture which then rises and hits the roof, which in turn is cold turning the rising air into water....could this not be the case????? :rolleyes:

 

There is one thing i'd like to add and that is around 8wks ago, when this problem happened, i did use a coat hanger and prodded the sunroof drainholes (quiet aggressively) but nothing seemed to be blocked. However, I then poured a lot of water down the front passenger side hole. Most came out from near the wheel arch, but after a bit, some also started coming out from the passenger foot-well.

[Mirez]

100% you have a leak, there is no way thats from breathing - unless you are all living in it?

 

I remain convinced that pipe can't be making a suitable seal. Since there is now a further question about its integrity just replace it... its gonna be a lot less then a tenner from a scapyard.

 

I'm not reffering to the carpet as being wet but the sound deadening below it, the carpets plastic backed so you won't feel it on-top - you have to remove the trims around the doors and lift it up to see whats happening with the deadening material

Edited December 7, 2010 by Mirez

[sotal]

I agree that must be a leak and you must have a fair amount of water in there. I had the classic rear windscreen washer pipe burst last year and flooded under the passenger seat. There was a lot of water and I didn't get that much condensation!

 

I had to pull the carpet up and cut the sound deadening along the tunnel as it's one piece trapped in place. I cut as much as I could out and put it in the garage to try and kept bringing it outside into any sun. It took a couple of weeks to get it dry, then I put it back.

 

You also mentioned that the sunroof seal is leaking and dripping on the seat, any leak no matter how small need sealing, and as much moisture needs removing from the car. If you use any towels make sure you take them out of the car.

[vwsharan123]

thanks very much guys.

 

being a novice, could you please post a photo or some sort to show me what this "soud deadening" thing looks like as well as a step-by-step guide? Also do i need to remove ALL front/back/rear door trims or just the front passenger/driver? Will this mean i will have to remove the whole carpet?

[Mirez]

The sound deadening is like house underlay - its a mixture of felt, wool and general fluff compacted down to make the material and it lives under the carpet. <BR><BR>You need to remove as much as needed to find the water - given its the passenger footwell then thats all you need to start with. Remove the kick trim that runs along the bottom of the door opening (3 or 4 screws under covers). That should be enough to lift the carpet up and get your hand inbetween to feel if the felt is dry or not. <BR><BR>

[gregers]

i wouldnt be surprised if when you were rodding the pipe that you may have punctured it somewhere as well??

 

as mark has said for the sake of a few quid hange the pipes.i wouldnt be happy if i put everything back and it still leaked:angry2: so save your hard graft and do the job once and for all.

 

as another post has suggestedmlook at the pollen filter area?

 

keep us informed.

[vwsharan123]

hi guys,

 

thanks for all ur replies and suggestions. Unfortunately, due to a family member being taken ill in hospital, i'm going to have to postpone the work until they are better.

 

I promise that i will get back to you as soon as possible.

 

take care