Air Con Repeated Failure

[JohnSimpson]

Galaxy 1.9tdi, 52 plate,Ghia with Clim control. An odd one, bear with me.

 

Everything working ok apart from no cold air coming through when needed and c/c LCD panel flashes for 15 secs or so when ignition switched on. Took it to a local garage (not Ford and not my usual one- see below) who re-gassed it (took about 45mins). They said they had 'pressure tested' it. LED flashing had cleared and it ran cold - for a day or so then returned to no cooling and flashing LED.

 

Returned to my usual garage (they had had a fire and were waiting delivery/commissioning of their new air con machine previously) as they were now back up and running in the air con dept. These are people I've used many times before and pretty well trust them. He reckoned that the system was completely empty. He had it for 2 days, tested everything with this new all-singing, all-dancing machine including UV dye and Freon sniffer ect etc and only found 1 seal needing replacing. He left it overnight, retested Friday morning and got a temp of 4 deg C and I picked it up Friday afternoon. The LED flashed as I turned on the ignition, but the air con was working fine. The second time I turned on the ignition, the LED didn't flash and it still worked ok. You know what I'm going to say next.

 

Saturday morning, LED flashes and there's no cooling!!!

 

It's now a Bank Holiday weekend and he's not open now until Tuesday. And on Thursday we leave to drive to the SW of France. HHHEEEEEELLLLLPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!

 

So. What on earth, after being tested with the latest kit and pronounced gas tight by 2 garages could make a system lose all its refrigerant after 48 hours? I'm sure my guy will pull out all the stops for me on Tuesday morning, but to have a starting point by then would be a huge bonus.

 

TIA

John S

[Biscuit]

Galaxy 1.9tdi, 52 plate,Ghia with Clim control. An odd one, bear with me.

 

Everything working ok apart from no cold air coming through when needed and c/c LCD panel flashes for 15 secs or so when ignition switched on. Took it to a local garage (not Ford and not my usual one- see below) who re-gassed it (took about 45mins). They said they had 'pressure tested' it. LED flashing had cleared and it ran cold - for a day or so then returned to no cooling and flashing LED.

 

Returned to my usual garage (they had had a fire and were waiting delivery/commissioning of their new air con machine previously) as they were now back up and running in the air con dept. These are people I've used many times before and pretty well trust them. He reckoned that the system was completely empty. He had it for 2 days, tested everything with this new all-singing, all-dancing machine including UV dye and Freon sniffer ect etc and only found 1 seal needing replacing. He left it overnight, retested Friday morning and got a temp of 4 deg C and I picked it up Friday afternoon. The LED flashed as I turned on the ignition, but the air con was working fine. The second time I turned on the ignition, the LED didn't flash and it still worked ok. You know what I'm going to say next.

 

Saturday morning, LED flashes and there's no cooling!!!

 

It's now a Bank Holiday weekend and he's not open now until Tuesday. And on Thursday we leave to drive to the SW of France. HHHEEEEEELLLLLPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!

 

So. What on earth, after being tested with the latest kit and pronounced gas tight by 2 garages could make a system lose all its refrigerant after 48 hours? I'm sure my guy will pull out all the stops for me on Tuesday morning, but to have a starting point by then would be a huge bonus.

 

TIA

John S

 

 

Hi John

I had the same problem with mine.

It turned out to be the condenser which has a large nut on the top left (i think) as you look at it from

the front.

The washer that is underneath the nut corrodes and so the gas escapes!

As you say, the pressure is there when they test it but it dissppears after a few hours!

Hopes this sheds some light on it for you

Biscuit

[JohnSimpson]

Galaxy 1.9tdi, 52 plate,Ghia with Clim control. An odd one, bear with me.

 

Everything working ok apart from no cold air coming through when needed and c/c LCD panel flashes for 15 secs or so when ignition switched on. Took it to a local garage (not Ford and not my usual one- see below) who re-gassed it (took about 45mins). They said they had 'pressure tested' it. LED flashing had cleared and it ran cold - for a day or so then returned to no cooling and flashing LED.

 

Returned to my usual garage (they had had a fire and were waiting delivery/commissioning of their new air con machine previously) as they were now back up and running in the air con dept. These are people I've used many times before and pretty well trust them. He reckoned that the system was completely empty. He had it for 2 days, tested everything with this new all-singing, all-dancing machine including UV dye and Freon sniffer ect etc and only found 1 seal needing replacing. He left it overnight, retested Friday morning and got a temp of 4 deg C and I picked it up Friday afternoon. The LED flashed as I turned on the ignition, but the air con was working fine. The second time I turned on the ignition, the LED didn't flash and it still worked ok. You know what I'm going to say next.

 

Saturday morning, LED flashes and there's no cooling!!!

 

It's now a Bank Holiday weekend and he's not open now until Tuesday. And on Thursday we leave to drive to the SW of France. HHHEEEEEELLLLLPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!

 

So. What on earth, after being tested with the latest kit and pronounced gas tight by 2 garages could make a system lose all its refrigerant after 48 hours? I'm sure my guy will pull out all the stops for me on Tuesday morning, but to have a starting point by then would be a huge bonus.

 

TIA

John S

 

 

Hi John

I had the same problem with mine.

It turned out to be the condenser which has a large nut on the top left (i think) as you look at it from

the front.

The washer that is underneath the nut corrodes and so the gas escapes!

As you say, the pressure is there when they test it but it dissppears after a few hours!

Hopes this sheds some light on it for you

Biscuit

 

Hi Biscuit and a huge big thank you for coming back so quick on this. I need all the help I can get in the next couple of days!.

 

However, what still doesn't add up is that if there is a sufficiently big enough leak to expell all the gas in a couple of days, why didn't the sniffer and UV dye detector light see it? That's what's really puzzling about this one.

Regards

John

[Biscuit]

Hi John

I went through all the rigmarole of 'where is the dye?'

with regards to the 'sniffer', they only ued it on the inside of the car

because they didnt know about the 'common' fault with the condenser

and it turned out that soon as the car went into ford they new exactly where the problem was

and told the garage that the condenser needed to be replaced!

not had any problems since.

so if i were you i'd check it out

Biscuit

Edited May 24, 2009 by Biscuit

[mikej]

CONDENSOR,CONDENSOR, looking from the front of the car it is the small aircon rad fitted on the front of the coolant radiator, look on the left hand side of it, there is a chamber which houses the reciever/dryer ( this comes already installed when you buy a new condensor so don't buy them seperately ) at the top of the drier tube there is a black plastic cap prise the cap off and dribble a little light oil into it, cooking oil is what i used, if you see small air bubbles forming then it's stuffed ( the bubbles may be difficult to see as it depends how much pressure is still in the system ! )however if it's been leaking you should see some green or yellow dye crust around the circlip. Bad design mate the circlip than holds the drier in corrodes and lets out your gas ford have now modified them .VERY VERY common on early mk2's inc my own cost me aprrox

[JohnSimpson]

CONDENSOR,CONDENSOR, looking from the front of the car it is the small aircon rad fitted on the front of the coolant radiator, look on the left hand side of it, there is a chamber which houses the reciever/dryer ( this comes already installed when you buy a new condensor so don't buy them seperately ) at the top of the drier tube there is a black plastic cap prise the cap off and dribble a little light oil into it, cooking oil is what i used, if you see small air bubbles forming then it's stuffed ( the bubbles may be difficult to see as it depends how much pressure is still in the system ! )however if it's been leaking you should see some green or yellow dye crust around the circlip. Bad design mate the circlip than holds the drier in corrodes and lets out your gas ford have now modified them .VERY VERY common on early mk2's inc my own cost me aprrox

[mikej]

Hi John,

sorry mate i don't have the car with me at the moment but from what i can remember you will have to remove the torx's you mentioned and remove the bumper , to do this i think it's 3 torx's either side of the bumper under the wheel arch, if you follow the bumper ends you should see them going through the wheel arc liners, then go underneath at the front and remove the, i think three bolts securing the bumper to the under tray, don't forget to push the bonnet opener through the grill when removing it ( it will come off attached to the bumper) The bumper really does come off easy. You should be able to manouver the cap off then. Note if you want to replace the condensor you will have to remove the bumper bar ( large steel bumper) from behing the plastic bumper also the two aircon pipes, i think on the right of the condensor. Be aware i drilled a couple of holes in the plastic cross member to get a socket on the top two 10mm bolts holding the condensor on! John i have done this job twice now and can do it in under 45 mins however it was over a year ago so i may have missed something.

Actually thinking about it are you sure that once you remove the torx's from the top of the grill you cannot lift and pull the grill forward enough to get the cap off, if not then try the above.

sorry i can't be of anymore help mate but as said i don't have the car with me

mike....

Biscuit is talking about is the same regarding the leak, top of the reciever/drier fitted on the left of the condensor....

Edited May 24, 2009 by mikej

[richyrich]

If you can check through my old posts you will see some photos of the front of the car when I changed my condensor.

Removing front bumper is quite easy. There is an easy way, and the hard way of the ford TIS manual!

Still need the specialist gear afterwards though.

 

Richyrich

[JohnSimpson]

Hi John,

sorry mate i don't have the car with me at the moment but from what i can remember you will have to remove the torx's you mentioned and remove the bumper , to do this i think it's 3 torx's either side of the bumper under the wheel arch, if you follow the bumper ends you should see them going through the wheel arc liners, then go underneath at the front and remove the, i think three bolts securing the bumper to the under tray, don't forget to push the bonnet opener through the grill when removing it ( it will come off attached to the bumper) The bumper really does come off easy. You should be able to manouver the cap off then. Note if you want to replace the condensor you will have to remove the bumper bar ( large steel bumper) from behing the plastic bumper also the two aircon pipes, i think on the right of the condensor. Be aware i drilled a couple of holes in the plastic cross member to get a socket on the top two 10mm bolts holding the condensor on! John i have done this job twice now and can do it in under 45 mins however it was over a year ago so i may have missed something.

Actually thinking about it are you sure that once you remove the torx's from the top of the grill you cannot lift and pull the grill forward enough to get the cap off, if not then try the above.

sorry i can't be of anymore help mate but as said i don't have the car with me

mike....

Biscuit is talking about is the same regarding the leak, top of the reciever/drier fitted on the left of the condensor....

 

Hi Mike .... yep, you're right, with a bit of gentle levering you can get to the top of the receiver/dryer, just about. However, on mine the cap is fixed on with a central Torx screw and imprinted on the top of the cap is "DO NOT REMOVE". It doesn't look as though it HAS been moved (ever) so the garage haven't checked it out for sure. But I'm wondering if it's maybe a later type from yours ... and whether I should actually unscrew it???

[JohnSimpson]

If you can check through my old posts you will see some photos of the front of the car when I changed my condensor.

Removing front bumper is quite easy. There is an easy way, and the hard way of the ford TIS manual!

Still need the specialist gear afterwards though.

 

Richyrich

 

Rich ... many thanks ... yes, I found the photos and also of rad and receiver/dryer. Very helpful.

[mikej]

QUOTE However, on mine the cap is fixed on with a central Torx screw

Pretty sure it's the same as mine which also said don't remove, it's more of a dust cap as it's only a cover and shouldn't cause you any problems, if you don't take it off then you will never know if it's gone or not so it's upto you really ? :(

[JohnSimpson]

QUOTE However, on mine the cap is fixed on with a central Torx screw

Pretty sure it's the same as mine which also said don't remove, it's more of a dust cap as it's only a cover and shouldn't cause you any problems, if you don't take it off then you will never know if it's gone or not so it's upto you really ? :ph34r:

 

Hi there .. OK got it sorted and thought I'd post back for info. Looks like the condensor had been changed earlier as the receiver/dryer is the later modded type.

 

When it was jacked up we saw a trace of dye on the high pressure hose from the compressor where the flexi bit joins the metal collar. The clue was that the system had been pressure tested, refilled etc etc by two garages and pronounced gas tight by both - but only when the car was in the workshop. As soon as you drove it the movement on the pipe was enough to let out all the gas within a 3 mile trip.

 

New high pressure pipe was ..........

[mikej]

John don't ever listen to me mate lol :ph34r: i know that the price of the pipe is a little steep but in Galaxy aircon terms you got away lightly, still glad it's fixed mate. Till next time :wacko:

[Bigjeeze]

When it was jacked up we saw a trace of dye on the high pressure hose from the compressor where the flexi bit joins the metal collar. The clue was that the system had been pressure tested, refilled etc etc by two garages and pronounced gas tight by both - but only when the car was in the workshop. As soon as you drove it the movement on the pipe was enough to let out all the gas within a 3 mile trip.

 

New high pressure pipe was ..........