Gearbox Issues

[Bigjeeze]

I posted a few weeks ago with a noise on my clutch which appears to have gone now. But the about two days ago I noticed it is harder and harder to get into reverse - sometimes almost impossible. I checked the clutch by putting it is 4th gear and letting it out - it stalled as it should so it isn't slipping - I took the battery tray out and checked the mechanism for the gear change - cables etc all seem free and OK - there is no obvious hydraulic leak - Master cylinder is full - no fluid dripping down anywhere - So I am left with Gearbox oil ( well that's the cheap option!) I haven't ever looked at the Gearobx oil or changed it - the car has done 140K now so maybe it needs changing. I thought I would give this a go but I can't work out what oil it should have. TIS gives a spec but it is gobbledygook and I can't find what I should use anywhere. It is a MK2 2001 6 speed manual.

 

Any suggestions?

[seatkid]

You have to establish if the clutch is not dragging, i.e. fully disengaging. Thats the usual cause of reverse gear denial - the only gear with synchromesh.

Check the brake fluid level and that the clutch pedal is coming up fully and down to the floorpan fully. Could be a master or slave cylinder problem.

 

Doubt that gearbox oil would affect reverse, other gears would be first to suffer. Could be internal breakage in reverse gear selector mechanism.

[Bigjeeze]

I think in fact is a hydraulic problem - last night the clutch took up about an inch from the floor.

[sepulchrave]

Sounds like the slave cylinder has packed up, apparently they all do eventually.

[Bigjeeze]

I too now beleive it to be slave cylinder - I'll try bleeding it - then give up and whip the gearbox off! Ho Ho another Merry CHristmas!

[Bigjeeze]

Gents

 

can someone please advise me - As far as I can tell from TIS the Clutch master cylinder is a separate item from the brake MC - albeit that they share a common fluid resovoir. I looked on TIS and it says to remove the clutch MC you need to disconnect the HCB valve ( I think this is the ABS thingy) - but as it appears that you can remove the MC phsically without touching the brakes and of course you can clamp off the pip from the fluid resovoir to the MC it seems that I should be able to remove the MC without touching the brakes - Does this seem feasible? or am I just trying to ignore the inevitable?

 

Any ideas or advice gratefully accepted.

 

NB this is really a last ditch attempt before accepting that I may have to take out the gearbox!!

[craig245t]

you can remove the clutch master cylinder without affecting the brakes as it is separate although fed from the same reservoir. The master is removed from inside the car after removing the clutch pedal. You need to work out where the problem lies before removing anything though.

 

Your problem is almost certainly hydraulic and not mechanical.

If there is fluid underneath the car or the level in the reservoir is dropping then its probably the slave cylinder in the gearbox bellhousing leaking (nasty).

If the pedal is soft and the clutch bites almost right down on the floor then it's probably the master. I've had the same problem twice in 2 years.

This WILL sound ridiculous but try it first as it now works for me every time the pedal feels soft. Using your hand rattle the clutch pedal up and down and side to side 20 or 30 times then see how it feels with your foot - I did say it would sound ridiculous. I am convinced the the problem is something to do with the master cylinder not sitting square in relation to the pedal (it sits right behind the pedal) and when operated doesn't move the fluid effectively.

 

Ford deny there is a problem but the number of posts about this problem says otherwise. My suggestion works for me and may be a specific cure for my car but try it - it wont cost you a penny. IYour master cyl may be knackered and it's worth noting that these clutch systems dont bleed in the normal way. Read the ford tis disc first.

 

Good luck

[Bigjeeze]

you can remove the clutch master cylinder without affecting the brakes as it is separate although fed from the same reservoir. The master is removed from inside the car after removing the clutch pedal. You need to work out where the problem lies before removing anything though.

 

Your problem is almost certainly hydraulic and not mechanical.

If there is fluid underneath the car or the level in the reservoir is dropping then its probably the slave cylinder in the gearbox bellhousing leaking (nasty).

If the pedal is soft and the clutch bites almost right down on the floor then it's probably the master. I've had the same problem twice in 2 years.

This WILL sound ridiculous but try it first as it now works for me every time the pedal feels soft. Using your hand rattle the clutch pedal up and down and side to side 20 or 30 times then see how it feels with your foot - I did say it would sound ridiculous. I am convinced the the problem is something to do with the master cylinder not sitting square in relation to the pedal (it sits right behind the pedal) and when operated doesn't move the fluid effectively.

 

Ford deny there is a problem but the number of posts about this problem says otherwise. My suggestion works for me and may be a specific cure for my car but try it - it wont cost you a penny. IYour master cyl may be knackered and it's worth noting that these clutch systems dont bleed in the normal way. Read the ford tis disc first.

 

Good luck

 

Thanks Criag - It does sound daft - but I will certainly give it a try. I have tried bleeding using an eezibleed but from the TIS it appears to be a vaccum type rather than pressure. I have no loss of fluid from the MC or apprently the slave. SO hopefully it is the MC. I'll give it a wiggle and see how it goes.

 

Thanks again

 

 

BJ

[Bigjeeze]

I have bought a new MC and will attempt to fit it tonight/tomorrow.

[Bigjeeze]

OK first problem!

 

I have removed the hydraulics and undone the two bolts that hold the MC but I can't work out how to get the MC out of the pedal. There is a ball on the end of the MC actuating arm that clips into the pedal - I can't see how to get it out. TIS says to take out the pedal and shows you various diagrams illustrating the return spring mechanism - unfortunately it doesn't match what ! have - so at the moment the MC is hanging from the ball joint into the clutch pedal.

 

I gave up after the strain of workng in a mirror became too much - I'll have another try tomorrow. If anyone has any suggestions I'd be very grateful!!

 

BJ

[Bigjeeze]

I managed to remove the MC and re fit the new one - with a lot of swearing and cursing!!. I have tried bleeding it but so far with no success. I only havce a pressure bleeder and this one appears to need a vacuum one - ANyone got any suggestions? Maybe I am doing it wrongly?

[Bigjeeze]

I managed to bleed the system via the bleed nipple but to no avail so I am now starting to take the gearbox off. I have doen all of the "up top" so far - but it's too bloody cold to creep about under the car today - I have two garages but neither one is big enough to get the Gal in. So another progress report tomorrow when I get the box off.

[Bigjeeze]

Well

[Bigjeeze]

DMF - can anyone please tell me how to judge if this is OK or not - On a visual inspection it seems fine - there are no loose or rattley bits - How do I test it? Edited December 29, 2008 by Bigjeeze

[sepulchrave]

Very difficult to inspect, you need to ascertain that the driven face is true and that the whole assembly is in balance, the only way is to have it refaced (skimmed for truth) and dynamically balanced at a machine shop. Generally if they're no good then they're U/S.

[Bigjeeze]

Very difficult to inspect, you need to ascertain that the driven face is true and that the whole assembly is in balance, the only way is to have it refaced (skimmed for truth) and dynamically balanced at a machine shop. Generally if they're no good then they're U/S.

 

 

Thanks - but I need to get the thing back together - As far as I can judge there was no rattling, no clunking no issues with the clutch prior to the failure - The surface looks fine - no lines no scoring etc - The driven plate had the material off the gearbox side - IE the pressure plate so any damage was restricted to that side (although there wasn't any ). I'll just have to re install and hope like hell all is ok

 

 

BJ

[Bigjeeze]

After a sleepless night worrying about it I decided to buy a new DMF - Got it from GSF at

[Bigjeeze]

Well the gearbox is now back in the car - reasonably straightforward although so heavy it needed two of us to manouvre it around. I just have to re install the Drive shafts and the battery tray etc and then bleed the clutch. I'll post some pics of the clutch plates - I didn't bother with pics of the removal etc as it is fairly ordinary - just time consuming getting all the peripherals off. The one thing I thought would be difficult was the gear change cables - but these are much easier than on the MK1.

 

Progress report tomorrow when I finish - it's too bloody cold out there!

[seatkid]

What a way to spend to spend new years eve/day! :D

 

You must have killed a cat or something to get such a penance. :46:

[harpster]

bigjeeze,

how heavy in kilos is the gearbox, did you have to drop engine and remove both driveshafts. I gotta change my slave as the clutch keeps dropping and needs bleeding to make it work, it lasts about 2 wks, then i do it all again. I did what you did with Master cylinder First change in nov 2008, boy is it awkward, took me two days..but the problem still was there

Can you give me any advice on the slave and clutch change operation.

thanks Harpster

[Bigjeeze]

bigjeeze,

how heavy in kilos is the gearbox, did you have to drop engine and remove both driveshafts. I gotta change my slave as the clutch keeps dropping and needs bleeding to make it work, it lasts about 2 wks, then i do it all again. I did what you did with Master cylinder First change in nov 2008, boy is it awkward, took me two days..but the problem still was there

Can you give me any advice on the slave and clutch change operation.

thanks Harpster

 

I don't know exactly but I would estimate around 100Kg. I had two jacks one to hold up the engine - the other to hold the gearbox (i had modified this slightly by bolting a flat plywood plate to it to allow the Gbox to sit on it) - Once the gearbox bolts,drive shafts etc ( you don't have to remove the driveshafts completely you can just move them to one side once undone from the gbox end) were undone I lowered the engine jack carefully then once there was sufficient clearance to get the gearbox off I lowered the other one until I could get it on to the ground - That was where I needed my son's help. Once all the bolts etc are undone you need to rotate the box clockwise(Ithink!) to get it off. Once it was out is is a straight forward clutch change. Re fitting was simply the reverse although if like me you you think the engine stabiliser bracket is where the gearbox bolts in you will have a hard time!!. That to one side it was just heavy but not difficult. It was freezing cold - literally - the Gal is too big to get into either of my garages so I did it in the drive. You will need to make a judgement as to whether or not you change the DMF - I did purely because no one could tell me whether it was knackered or not - and as I didn't want to do this again I changed it. The Salve cylinder is really simple just three bolts. Bleeding wasn't too difficult - in the end I bodged up a vacuum bleeder using the eezibleed and some extra pipes.

Edited April 2, 2009 by Bigjeeze