Cap In Hand And Begging For Help

[Scorpiorefugee]

It's been a while. I do pop in occasionally but I find it all too habit forming and have to find alternative therapy. Is there an organisation like Ford Galaxy addicts anonymous or something.

 

Anway, I'm hoping someone out there can point me in the right direction. My poor old '98 110 is well on the way to it's 1/4 million but is now spending a lot of time pretending to be a 1938 Austin 7. It all started after a long descent of Birdlip hill hanging on to 3rd gear. When I got on to the M5 and went to pull out it just didn't happen. It had a few a few bursts of normality but for the last 400 miles it's been just about capable of holding 70 on a level road. The throttle only seems active for about the top 1/4 travel and actully seems to lose power if pressed further down. Fuel consumption seems normal and there is no smoke.

 

I have noticed that the engine note seems more harsh and, on the rare spells of normality, it seems to settle to its normal happy buzz. This could be my imagination but I think not.

 

Experimenting, I have found that, if I hold it in second and let it build up to 3500 rpm (I seldom go there normally other than when going down Birdlip.) the old thing picks up her skirts and makes a bee line for the horizon and, if pushed reasonably hard, will behave normally for a while.

 

I have had a good browse but the only post which seems to get close mentions a device mounted under the air filter, but mine doesn't have one. During it's normal spells it seems as sweet as it has ever been during the last 80K that I have had it so I am hoping that there is nothing serious.

 

I've had a tug and a poke at all of the pipes but can see no sign of weakness.

 

Any suggestions welcome but I am so attatched to the old thing I could almost live with it as it is, even going back up Birdlip at 35 in third.

[NikpV]

sounds like it may be maf - surely its got one. split vacuum hose to turbo sometimes doesnt open up but hy?

[Scorpiorefugee]

Thanks Nik.

 

I've had MAF problems and it just doesn't feel that way. It cuts in and out just like being switched on and off. It's all very frustrating. I know that there are lots of posts with useful information on these things but I have not seen anything that helps me to understand it to the point of being able to tackle the problem logically. Still can't complain. It's all been so damned reliable I haven't had to worry about it before.

 

90K of trouble free motoring with nothing more than a lot of careful neglect and the occasional oil change......

 

It has every right to start getting a bit temperamental.

[Mirez]

A broken up cat could cause you an issue along these lines, after running it hot down the hill it could have broken up - esp if its the original? When they fail they block the exhaust gases escaping causing back pressure and low performance with little other sign. If you get underneath her give it a thump with the palm of your hand (not to excessive!) and listen for rattling noises.

[Scorpiorefugee]

Thanks Mirez,

 

I did wonder about the Cat and exhaust sensors etc. but It is intermittent and still goes like a train when it's in a good mood. Also, my understanding is that on overrun there is no combustion, no exhauit and no turbo action (hence turbo lag when you suddenly floor it) so the cat actually runs cool. I suppose that when putting the power back on it could suffer thermal shock and cause the result you describe but I'm hoping that the intermittent bit is a good sign and staying hopeful. Anyway, a cat would cost more than than car's worth. (to anyone else at least.)

[mumof4]

can i ask, does the turbo feel like it cuts out when you floor it, but when you ease back off the accelerator a little bit, its as if it comes back on? and the speed will climb as long as you hold that position?

 

very tired at the mo, so if youve already said that it does, then apologies..its just that mine does what ive described.

 

 

Good to see you back scorp...and im afraid there is no organisation..just gotta live with it :blink:

[Scorpiorefugee]

Thanks Cherub,

 

Good to see that you're still at it, energy unabaited. :)

 

Nah! When it's in a bad mood it sounds and runs like an old tractor.

 

Sorry to hear you're in trouble with yours and it does sound a bit similar. Can't remember which version yours is but each one seems to have it's own fault patterns. The only common problem seems to be the MAF. I've had a look around and there seems to be a lot of silly things for which no-one (Even SeatKid) has a satisfactory solution. - reluctance to start when hot for one.

 

In another life I used to develop fault fiinding techniques for things much more complex than motorcars but that did need a depth of understanding way beyond what is available on these things and never found anything that could not be diagnosed with no more than 6 simple tests. I cannot easily adopt the usual Ford dealer approach of replacing bits until either the customer runs out of mone or they just happen to fluke a fix.

 

I shouldn't be unkind. I'm sure they are not all that bad.

 

:)

[seatkid]

MAF sensor

[Scorpiorefugee]

Hi SeatKid,

 

You say that with such conviction and as the lady herself has made the same suggestion I have no option but to go out tomorrow and swipe the one off my missus's Gal.

 

If that fixes it, I shall then give it back and ask her to gently braise my cap and serve it with fresh veg for dinner.

[Scorpiorefugee]

Good news....... I've still got my cap to keep my head warm.

 

Bad news ...... It ian't the MAF.

 

Any other suggestions please?

[Mirez]

I would still check the cat, if its broken up and blocking the flow of gases it would run poorly - bouncing and shocks from the road could easily move/dislodge bits causing intermittant good performance. You'll get a second hand one less then

[Beyond Help?]

It could be a split vacuum hose meaning no vacuum to adjust the vanes in the turbo, or a failed turbo vacuum servo.

 

It could also be the throttle pedal failing.

[Scorpiorefugee]

Mirez and Beyond Help? (Is it really that bad? :) )

 

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

Re the Cat. I think the easiest way to check that is to ask my friendly MOT tester to do an emission test. I'll put it on a to do list.

 

Re the throttle sensor. I think that is quite possibly the cause of the problem that 'Mum of 4' is experiencing but the fault seems to clear in such a way that it doesn't fit that sort of pattern. However, I shall have to research a way of getting a it to test it.

 

The same thing seems to rule out pipes although a blockage does seem a posibility.

 

I just wish I knew a bit more about what did what without having to strip it all out.

 

Thanks again.

[Scorpiorefugee]

OK! I just got a bit lucky. I remembered that I had a Ford TIS disc from when I had a Scorpio and it covers the Gals up to 98 ish.

(I might be able to bounce a copy if anyone asks but not too many please)

I now know what bits and pieces are involved and can guess at the purpose of most of them but can't see how anyone can get at them without serious stripping down.(If SeatKid looks in again -- I Know!....."WHIMP!"

 

The hoses all look in good condition although the one to the Vacuum Diapraghm unit is sopping wet.

I wondered if anyone can suggest a simple way of checking if it is all doing anything I should be grateful. It's dark now but I intend to disconnect the pipe feeding into the EGR (What does that stand for?) and checking for suction and then going backwards. However, my instinct at the moment is to suspect the boost control solenoid or the EGR for sticking.

 

I shall also disconnect the battery for a few mins to reset the error codes.

 

Any input will be much appreciated.

[mumof4]

Exhaust Gas Recirculation

[Scorpiorefugee]

M o 4

 

Is there no end to your talents? Actually, I can see it now - it at the top of the diagram. It just doesn't make much sense but it does suggest the problem is somewhere else.

[mumof4]

umm..i googled it :D

 

But at least i know what it means now LOL

[seatkid]

Any other suggestions please?

Sell the car on ebay...... :D

[Scorpiorefugee]

Good idea but I am probably the only dope daft enough to buy it. Besides, it's almost part of the family. :(

 

By the time I've finished with vehicles even the scrap yards are reluctant to take them. :D

 

I haven't done with this one just yet. :D

Edited September 11, 2008 by Scorpiorefugee

[mumof4]

scorp..are you REALLY 63??!!

[seatkid]

If any part of the turbo system (vane actuator, vacuum pipes, boost control) were dicky then it would trigger limp home mode which on a MkII is resettable only by turning off the engine and restarting.

 

The EGR valve may be a good candidate to investigate. The EGR is normally closed, but at part load and hot engine, it opens to allow exhaust gas to be recirculated into the intake, thereby reducing the combustion temperatures (due to the CO2) and reducing NOx emissions. It closes again at high or low load/idle. The EGR valve gets gunged up with carbon particularly if youre a part load/hot engine type driver. If it were to stick part open, then max power would be greatly reduced.

 

My EGR valve developed a loud whistle when it opened, indicating it was partly blocked. I cleaned it sucessfully (in that its stopped whistling) by using a double dose of Millers Diesel Sport 4 additive for a while coupled with several Italian tuneups. LOTS of black smoke at first....then eventually bingo!

Edited September 11, 2008 by seatkid

[seatkid]

scorp..are you REALLY 63??!!

MO4, you know better than to ask a man his age..........

[mumof4]

scorp..are you REALLY 63??!!

MO4, you know better than to ask a man his age..........

 

welll....if you dont ask...

 

Besides, im curious. He doesnt sound like a doddering 63 yr old in his posts!

[Scorpiorefugee]

Mum of 4,

 

Didn't you notice the reference to a '38 Austin 7. Sorry, a lass of your tender years wouldn't even uderstand any of that. I never owned one of those but I did own and run a 37 Standard 8 - about 30 bhp - WOW!

 

I wonder if SeatKid knows about these old things. Good old side valve engines, no heaters, radios or turbos to worry about. Semaphor indicators which meant you operated the switch and then had to turn and bang the door pillar until the damned thing decided to pop out of its hole before you turned. Not a problem really because the speed that they used to do meant you had loads of time before you got to the corner.

 

SeatKid,

 

Thanks for all of that useful info. Unfortunately, my old thing doesn't seem to fit with any of those.

 

The problem seems to come and go at it's leisure although it is pretty persistent in it's faulty state. It seems to clear if I gently increase revs in second and can clear briefly when cold. The engine does sound harsh when faulty but can instantly return to its normal buzz. No smoke, whistling or anything other than a reluctance to respond to more than 25% of pedal movement.

 

I am however now a little wiser and maybe able to use this to advantage but, right now, I'm tired.

 

Must be my age. :D

[seatkid]

I wonder if SeatKid knows about these old things. Good old side valve engines, no heaters, radios or turbos to worry about.

 

I remember my brother lowering the cylinder head on a Standard 10 engine onto my fingers. Ouch! That hurt, but then I was but a wee lad..... I remember he put that Standard 10 engine into his Standard 8 to upgrade it, :D but it still seemed to have a top speed of about 30mph and was loud and shook and rattled a lot.....

 

Good old side valves......decoking every 3000 miles........

 

Heater?......A good thick coat will suffice lad........

 

Radio?......My God, you need to buy a licence for that!! (7/6d IIRC).....anyway I doubt the dynamo would take the extra load...... :(