Shuddering Under Acceleration

[AndyMan]

Hi

 

I've spent an hour rooting around here and not found anything on this so perhaps it's just me.

If so I'd be glad for any suggestions. If not a link to what I've missed would oblige me.

 

My 2.8 VR6 Mk II Galaxy has developed an odd shudder. Pulling away at around 20mph, the front of the car shudders - waggles almost. Frequency probably 2-3 Hz. This is with the clutch fully engaged, it's not a clutch judder.

 

It varies in intensity accoring to the amount of power applied. So light-loaded it's not too obvious, partly because one doesn't spend long at 20 mph :-). Heaviliy laden it is very obviousespecially in 2nd gear, and seems to shake the dashboard horizontally left and right. The steering, however is not affected. VAG-COM does not report any misfire and the engine is pulling smoothly and cleanly. It feels as quick as ever (I bought it in 2003) and does good mpg (mid 20s). Oh, and coasting at 20 mph there is no noticeable oscillation at all.

 

There's a slight repeat wobble at about 40mph, only noticeable laden uphill and nothing at any higher speeds. Motorway cruising in unaffected at any speed/load combination. This has persisted through 3 sets of front tyres, including swapping the rear wheels to the front, 2 changes of brake pads and 1 of brake disks.

 

As it seems to be roadspeed related, but wheel/brake balance doesn't appear to be the answer I wondered about drive shafts. The shaft failure threads seem to say clonks precede that problem, though and I have no clonks (except ARB arms every 20k of course).

 

I realised just how long the car has been doing this when my 15 year old son indicated that he thought it was natural because the car was working so hard! Must've been doping it 2-3 years at least and nothing has broken yet.

 

Suggestions please folks.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

[Smilge]

Andy have you checked the engine roll restrictor? I know they are fitted to the diesels but not sure whether they are fitted to yours. Might be worth a look?

[Mirez]

Snap, that sounds exactly the same as my on-going issues.

 

To date:

 

New wheels and tyres

ARB links

Lower Balljoints

Lower Bushes (assembly)

Track rod ends

Driveshafts (assembly with inner/outter CV)

 

I have a roll restrictor on order (

[AndyMan]

Andy have you checked the engine roll restrictor?

 

Pardon the ignorance - Roll Restrictor?

 

Andy

[Mirez]

Bits that hold the engine in ;)

 

There are mounts, which literally take the weight and restrictors which stop the engine rotating or rolling when the power is applied

[gregers]

open bonnet grab hold of the engine and if it rocks then that could be the roll restrictor gone kaput,or could it be the other major thing that happens on these cars 'DRIVE SHAFT'????

[marcr]

Mirez, I thought this might be of interest to you. Will you be changing the roll restrictor yourself or putting it in to the garage?

[sepulchrave]

This is gonna sound obvious and I may be barking up the wrong tree but...

 

Are you absolutely sure that the traction control is not causing this problem, wheelspin at low speeds is SO easy in these cars because they're really heavy and tend to squat the rear while lifting the front?

 

Only one wheel needs to lose traction before the system starts to interfere horribly, and yours may be over zealous.

 

The remote suspension and steering feel make it very hard to detect by the standard seat of the pants method.

 

I have no experience with mark 2's but can you turn off or disable the TC just to be certain?

[MrT]

On the MkII 2.8 it is fitted with ESP and traction control. The ESP can be turned off but I am not sure if that also disables the traction control.

 

If the traction control operates when the wheels are pointing straight ahead, it feels like you have run over a load of bricks left in the road. This can happen quite easily even at 20mph and putting your foot down hard.

 

If the wheels spin at a slight angle, the ESP cuts in and that is silent, the light in the clocks will light and it is like someone has cut your throttle cable.

[Mirez]

Not speaking for the OP but my own issue, which sounds identical, is certainly not TC - based on the fact the car hasn't got it :huh:

 

I will indeed be changing the roll restrictor myself, its only 3 bolts and AFAIK there is no alignment issues so just support the engine, unbolt and bolt the new one up.

[CaramaC]

This is a long shot, but l thought l would post. . l have a 53 VW Sharan TDI and not long after l bought it (nearly 2 years ago now) l had a similar sounding problem).

Anyway it was driving me nuts but one day l took a look under the car to see if l could see anything amiss and l noticed that the exhaust heatshield was bent and pressing hard against the middle box on the exhaust restricting its movement on its rubber mountings. Went out for a drive and bingo, the problem had gone. The heat shield is only made of flimsy stuff and several weeks later the problem re appeared and it was the same thing again. What l think was/is happening is when we have had heavy rain, water is propelled up from the nearside front wheel (from deep puddles at the edge or the road) at a rate of knots and it hits the heatshield (also on the nearside) bending it and causing it eventually to jam against the middle exhaust box. Probably l was only getting the heavy shuddering on acceleration because the engine moving on its mountings but the exhaust couldn't move freely causing the shudder.........like l said, a long shot, but you never know....sorry for rambling on a bit

[AndyMan]

Thanks guys

 

Lots of possibilities there. I think I can discount the traction control as a WL comes on for that, although I didn't know about the different operation with both wheels slipping, so maybe there's a throttle modulation going on. BTW I've seen the WL more often when someone catches the switch and turns it off by mistake!

 

I'm interested in CaramaC's heatshield issue - seems unlikely that this would cause so much shaking as I get, but he does say 'heavy shuddering' it's not just noise, when heavily loaded you can see things shaking about! Nice if it was something so simple, though.

 

I will also look into the roll restrictor but I can't budge the engine from under the bonnet, and as I say the vibes seem to be transverse rather than fore-and aft. I suppose that could just be some sort of transferance. It's only done 54K - should the RR be worn out already?

 

Andy

[seatkid]

The RR doesnt wear out. The end bolt shears.

[AndyMan]

The RR doesnt wear out. The end bolt shears.

 

Yikes!

 

On my Mk 1 there was a steady-bar underneath the engine/gearbox, and a bolt sheared in that. Totally different to what I have in this car. I've seen photos of a round thing?

 

Andy

[seatkid]

Sorry, I was thinking that the Mk1 and Mk2 were similar.

 

Not sure if this is the correct pic - isnt this the roll restrictor? (under gearbox)

Edited August 26, 2008 by seatkid

[AndyMan]

"Sorry, I was thinking that the Mk1 and Mk2 were similar."

 

Is that a Mk II in the picture - looks a lot like the steady bar on my Mk II. The Mk I had a bolt in the end of the bar which sheared off. It's a non-standard pitch but the through bolt was the same pitch so we popped a normal bolt in the transverse (through) position and used the original through bolt in the end. The engine sort of dangled and banged to and fro very severely between drive and overdrive without it. This shudder is much smoother.

 

Googling roll restrictor shows pictures of a round thing with three bolts. I've not been under there since 2003 but I'll take a peek soon!

 

But I'm beginning to wonder about the traction control. .

 

Cheers.

 

Andy

[sappers]

Hi, I too have the same shudder on my 2002 2.8 v6 and am having no luck finding out why either. If its any help I dont think its the heatshield on the exhaust cos mine fell off a couple of months ago and it still vibrates!

[Jack]

I know this post is a few month old but I had the same issue on my Mk2 V6 a few years ago. Looking back through my invoices it looks like they replaced the following to cure this problem. I'm quoting from the invoice here "Replaced OSF inner CV joint and intermediate shaft and coupling to gearbox" The anti roll bar links where replaced at the same time but I'm sure that had nothing to do with the judder issue.

 

Cheers

Jack

[Steve_Mk1_2.3A]

Did anyone cure this 100%? I have a 2000 2.3A and it does exactly what it say above, when cruising nothing but the moment you accelerate up then the whole car shudders/wobbles.

 

Just about to have strut top mounts as they are shot - but anything else to look into? I know this is an old thread but something I guess might be known now?

 

Thanks

 

Steve

[Az2102]

Snap, that sounds exactly the same as my on-going issues.

 

To date

 

New wheels and tyres

ARB links

Lower Balljoints

Lower Bushes (assembly)

Track rod ends

Driveshafts (assembly with inner/outter CV)

 

I have a roll restrictor on order (�66!!!) and have the upper suspention mounts and top bearings left to change before I'll concede defeat!

mirez did you sort this at all?

 

I have a 1.9tdi on a 04 plate with 84k doing this.

 

it has had:-

 

clutch and dm flywheel

complete set of drives shafts

disks and pads all round

front lower rear bushes

new alloys

new tyres

 

 

 

drop links, roll restrictor and track rod ends seem ok with no play.

 

any help would be appreciated.

 

thanks

Edited June 30, 2016 by Az2102

[BrianH]

 

Snap, that sounds exactly the same as my on-going issues.

 

To date

 

New wheels and tyres

ARB links

Lower Balljoints

Lower Bushes (assembly)

Track rod ends

Driveshafts (assembly with inner/outter CV)

 

I have a roll restrictor on order (�66!!!) and have the upper suspention mounts and top bearings left to change before I'll concede defeat!

mirez did you sort this at all?

 

I have a 1.9tdi on a 04 plate with 84k doing this.

 

it has had:-

 

clutch and dm flywheel

complete set of drives shafts

disks and pads all round

front lower rear bushes

new alloys

new tyres

 

 

 

drop links, roll restrictor and track rod ends seem ok with no play.

 

any help would be appreciated.

 

thanks

 

You say youve had new tyres, but you may want to check the load rating of them. If they are underrated it causes all sorts of odd handling.

 

If you want to check what you should have try a quote on blackcircles and compare to whats fitted, its the last bit (mine for example are 195/65 R15 95V, its the 95 bit that you want to check)

 

The wrong rated tyres will also wear out quicker if that is the cause (they are normally referred to as an XL/Extra Load rated tyre by some places)

[Az2102]

 

 

Snap, that sounds exactly the same as my on-going issues.

 

To date

 

New wheels and tyres

ARB links

Lower Balljoints

Lower Bushes (assembly)

Track rod ends

Driveshafts (assembly with inner/outter CV)

 

I have a roll restrictor on order (�66!!!) and have the upper suspention mounts and top bearings left to change before I'll concede defeat!

mirez did you sort this at all?

 

I have a 1.9tdi on a 04 plate with 84k doing this.

 

it has had:-

 

clutch and dm flywheel

complete set of drives shafts

disks and pads all round

front lower rear bushes

new alloys

new tyres

 

 

 

drop links, roll restrictor and track rod ends seem ok with no play.

 

any help would be appreciated.

 

thanks

You say youve had new tyres, but you may want to check the load rating of them. If they are underrated it causes all sorts of odd handling.

 

If you want to check what you should have try a quote on blackcircles and compare to whats fitted, its the last bit (mine for example are 195/65 R15 95V, its the 95 bit that you want to check)

 

The wrong rated tyres will also wear out quicker if that is the cause (they are normally referred to as an XL/Extra Load rated tyre by some places)

225/45/17 extra load.

 

they are the correct rating as the ones I had on originally were run flats and not load rated. they were the first things to get changed.

[Ben g mon]

Run flat tyres weigh a ton and is the motoring equiverlent to butting concrete boots on a 100m runner/ sprinter and expecting it it to win....

 

Good call pulling them off...

[Az2102]

Run flat tyres weigh a ton and is the motoring equiverlent to butting concrete boots on a 100m runner/ sprinter and expecting it it to win....

 

Good call pulling them off...

I know mate. they came with the car. economy was sub 30s and it drove like a tank

[Az2102]

I've now also had top strut mounts, bearing and cup washers replaced.

 

Still have a shake under harsh acceleration. Usually second gear......

 

Any help will be appreciated