Cold Starting Problems Tdi 115

[XN85]

Hi,

 

I've got a 2003 TDi 115 which has developed cold starting problems. Initially it started taking a couple of attempts before it would fire, but over the past few months this has increased to up to 12 attempts! Prolonged cranking, pumping the throttle pedal or flooring the pedal make no difference.

 

Once the engine fires, it runs rough for a second or two and then smooths out. From then on it runs great - plenty of power, smooth acceleration and instant starting. Unless the engine has been left for quite a few hours (until completely cold) the problem doesn't reoccur. If anything, it appears that the idle speed might have increased slightly when it's fully warmed up - though I could be mistaken! The engine appears to idle at around 900rpm. Is this normal?

 

So far I have tried:

* servicing the engine (oil, flter and air filter);

* putting in injector cleaner;

* replacing the fuel filter (fuel consumption and performance appeared improved, though cold starting wasn't!);

* trying different makes of fuel (including VPower diesel and even bio-diesel as someone suggested that this might have a cleaning effect on the fuel system) and;

* replacing the glowplugs.

 

Nothing has worked.

 

The Galaxy is currently sat at my local garage who have tested that power is getting to the glowplugs, etc. Having had the car for two days they don't know what the problem is. They have suggested a new ECU. If the ECU was faulty, wouldn't it affect performance as well as cold starting?

 

Has anyone encountered this kind of problem before? Any suggestions as to what could be the problem?

 

Thanks

Dave

[sepulchrave]

They have suggested a new ECU. If the ECU was faulty, wouldn't it affect performance as well as cold starting?

 

Let me translate for you:

 

"We have no idea whats wrong with it, it's made our heads hurt, if you want us to think about it any more it'll cost you at least a grand, if not please take it away and don't come back."

 

Does that help?

[gregers]

think id be inclined to see if anyone near you has vag-com (or buy)just to see what fault codes come up,did you forget to change the pollen filter when you carried out your servicing not that it could be the problem,have you checked the maf,could there be splits in any pipe work,id certainly would be checking as much as you can yourself because as sepulchrave has eloquently :rolleyes: put it,it could end up costing you an arm and leg if you leave it at the garage.

[scorpio_man]

hi there

 

sounds like a leaking injector(s) to me.

 

best to find a diesel engine re conditioner. they might be able to fix your

old injector(s) or get new replacement ones cheaper.

 

a lot of up to '03 Volvo's suffer from this.

 

bosch ended up changing the design.

[sepulchrave]

Joking apart, you don't mention mileage/condition of the vehicle.

 

Poor cold starting can be symptomatic of a loss of cylinder compression, particularly on diesels, it only needs for one or two cylinders to be down to really cause problems.

 

I often see this with engines which have been seriously cooked up at some point in their life, generally the middle two cylinders are worst affected due to them running hotter.

 

It can also be down to the valves seating incorrectly although this is far less likely.

 

ECU FFS, Morons!

[XN85]

The car's a regularly serviced 51k miler which I try to keep in good condition.

 

Having left the car at my local Fraud dealer overnight, they have kindly changed the fuel filter! Again!

 

When you try and start it cold it immediately cuts out. This repeats for quite a few turns until it starts, struggles for a second and then runs as new. Apparently the fault codes coming up indicate nothing of significance - though they haven't told me what they are. I'll see whether I can find out and post on here.

 

Sepulchrave, we've owned the car virtually from new (from about 2k miles) so I don't think it's been abused. We generally use it as a family car - frequently using all 7 seats. Once warm, it starts and runs great. This is the bit that I don't get. It is only a cold starting problem...

 

I've checked what I could with regard pipes, etc, but am no mechanic (Ok, I 'forgot' about the pollen filter because I couldn't find it!). I doubt I'd know the MAF even if I dropped it on my toe!

 

At the moment the car's with my local Fraud dealer who have always been ok in the past - my friendly independent having scratched his head and given up! I like the comment about the ECU... it sounds so true in this case!

[f0ster]

The car's a regularly serviced 51k miler which I try to keep in good condition.

 

Having left the car at my local Fraud dealer overnight, they have kindly changed the fuel filter! Again!

 

When you try and start it cold it immediately cuts out. This repeats for quite a few turns until it starts, struggles for a second and then runs as new. Apparently the fault codes coming up indicate nothing of significance - though they haven't told me what they are. I'll see whether I can find out and post on here.

 

Sepulchrave, we've owned the car virtually from new (from about 2k miles) so I don't think it's been abused. We generally use it as a family car - frequently using all 7 seats. Once warm, it starts and runs great. This is the bit that I don't get. It is only a cold starting problem...

 

I've checked what I could with regard pipes, etc, but am no mechanic (Ok, I 'forgot' about the pollen filter because I couldn't find it!). I doubt I'd know the MAF even if I dropped it on my toe!

 

At the moment the car's with my local Fraud dealer who have always been ok in the past - my friendly independent having scratched his head and given up! I like the comment about the ECU... it sounds so true in this case!

 

 

hello

on the galaxy tdi the glow plugs are not required,mine has not had any for the last three years

and it starts first turn in any weather,cold starting on a diesel is quite often fuel leaking back, to cure the cold starting replace all of the leak off pipes on the injectors,(the rubber ones) also replace the small blanking rubber on the last one, also replace the filter and any orings on the filter head, (if air can get in to the fuel rail then the fuel will drain down) it is far better to replace the cheap stuff and then test it than to jump in at the deep end with expensive stuff, a good test is to clamp off the feed and return pipes back to the tank with two pairs of vice grips after you have had it running, then leave it over night,

before starting in the morning remove the clamps and see how it starts, if it starts ok then you have fuel leaking back, if you have a persistant fuel leaking back problem that you cannot fix by replacing stuff, (but clamping the pipes cures it) you can get a pair of non return valves from your lucas dealer, these valves go in to the feed and return pipes

[PaulusGT40]

Hi, just been reading this thread.

I have a 1999 TDI 'AFN' with starting problems i.e. beeping noise (variation of one, two and three beeps) and engine will not start. There is no power to the glow plugs when temp sensor either connected or disconnected. Engine just turns and turns and although cranking speed is very good, just wont fire, UNLESS that is I hot-wire the glow plugs straight off battery, then it will cough & splutter after couple cranks until the engine fires up on 2-3 cylinders, at which point I need to remove direct power to glow plugs and it will run sweet after 3 or 4 seconds. Exhaust very smoky for 10 seconds or so until unburnt diesel clears, but once started it runs perfectly. It will also restart very well if hot but as soon as it cools down then I the only way to get it started is the hot-wire procedure.

Any suggestions or help would be much appreciated!

[gregers]

i think it could be a duff battery.

[Frank Byrne]

Hi, just been reading this thread.

I have a 1999 TDI 'AFN' with starting problems i.e. beeping noise (variation of one, two and three beeps) and engine will not start. There is no power to the glow plugs when temp sensor either connected or disconnected. Engine just turns and turns and although cranking speed is very good, just wont fire, UNLESS that is I hot-wire the glow plugs straight off battery, then it will cough & splutter after couple cranks until the engine fires up on 2-3 cylinders, at which point I need to remove direct power to glow plugs and it will run sweet after 3 or 4 seconds. Exhaust very smoky for 10 seconds or so until unburnt diesel clears, but once started it runs perfectly. It will also restart very well if hot but as soon as it cools down then I the only way to get it started is the hot-wire procedure.

Any suggestions or help would be much appreciated!

[Frank Byrne]

Hi Paulus, sounds like your having the same problem as me, no power to the glow plugs, and smoke when starting, when warm the car is great... ive had this problem for some time now, ford informed me there was no glow plug regulater on my 1998 tdi which i find strange.. ive taken it to a garage who informed me there must be but want it for a day to find it... at a cost of i dont know what...

Its not your batery as one has surgested..

if anybody knows where the regulater is, we'd be greatful if you could share it...

[westie]

Guys,

 

Not sure if I can help, but I was having the same problem with my 110 TDI AFN engine.....no glow plug light and the engine just cranking and cranking and nothing happening.

Thanks to many helpful people on this forum, I eventually found out that the glow plug light does not just mean that the glow plugs are getting power.

The glow plug light actually indicates that the ECU is powered up and everything is ready to start the engine.

No glow plug light, means the ECU is not powered up and the car wil not start, no matter how long you crank it for.

 

The fault with mine appears as though it could be the infamous relay 109.

There are numerous other threads about this relay on this forum.

There is also some good stuff on www.forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=199398

I hope its ok to post the link on this forum.

 

To get my Galaxy to start, I had to run a wire from the top of the fuel solenoid direct to the battery...and bingo...the solenoid clicked "open", the glow plug light came on and the car fired up!!

Once running, I can disconnect the hot wire....maybe this means its not the relay and maybe the solenoid is the problem, (although its still only getting 12v to open it?).

Once running, it runs perfectly.

 

Thanks to all those who sent info on things to check when I was having my problems.

Hopefully this may help you to sort your problems out?

Edited October 20, 2008 by westie

[mikej]

XN85 as already mentioned , i have had the exact same problem a few years back which turned out to be the leak off pipes allowing air in , these were changed ( cheap to do yourself ) and the problem went . Might be worth a try on your bus...