Instrument Cluster Led Details?

[petemc]

Hi

My 1998 2.3 Ghia X has just failed its MOT.

One of the things it failed on was the ABS warning light on the dash not illuminating temporarily when turning the ignition on. It has sneaked through the last 6 or 7 MOTs without this working. Taking the instrument cluster apart has revealed that the LEDS for both the ABS and Alternator have been removed (with PCB tracks in the case of the ABS one!). My question is this, does anybody know the specification required for the replacement LEDs? Can I simply pop down to Maplins and buy a suitably sized 12v white LED?

 

Obviously, if I do manage to replace the LEDs, I am then going to find out that they were ripped out prior to my purchase of the vehicle for a reason. I knew the ABS didn't work but now I will need to find out why!

 

Also spotted some iffy soldering elsewhere on the circuit board, I'll sort that too. Like I did with the engine management relay (relay 30?) last year thanks to you guys, with photo assistance also, thanks again.

 

If anyone has any info on the instrument cluster LEDs it will be very much appreciated.

Cheers, Pete

[big_kev]

I suspect they may be ordinary LED's not 12v ones.....not 100% on this but there does appear to be some in line resistance.

 

Suggest "borrowing" one of the less important led's to check.....or use in its place.

You have a Ghia X .....lots of little lamps that you wouldn't miss.

 

I would think that one of you ABS sensors is faulty or more likely a ring is broken.

 

See http://www.fordgalaxy.org.uk/ford/index.php?showtopic=12582

[petemc]

Thanks for the response big_kev.

I had considered doing a swap, but ultimately I'd like to replace the swapped LED eventually also.

 

Thank you for the link. If the ring is broken, won't the ABS come on quite regularly?

I have tried (safely) bringing the ABS on in ice and snow with no success. I think everybody should throw their car around in snow on deserted carparks!

I was suspecting the pump.

 

I think I will swap the LED tomorrow and see what happens.

 

Cheers....Pete

[Mirez]

Nope - when you first start the car the system checks everything is present and thats it - stage 2 of the test is done with the vehicle in motion at about 15mph (If you drive with everything else turned off you may hear it). At this stage it checks the pump for operation (the bit you'll hear) and confirms all 4 road sensors are active and reading the same. If all that checks then the ABS is enabled for the rest of the journey unless a fault occurs. If it fails stage 2 then the LED is illuminated and the system will not activate for the rest of the journey.

 

A broken ring or sensor would fail stage 2 and therefore you would never have ABS until fixed.

 

I suspect the "dodgy" soldering is for the bleeper - the LED's are "managed" for both ABS and SRS systems and if they fail to illuminate when requested then the cluster will bleep instead.

[petemc]

Wow, I am loving this feedback and sharing of knowledge.

 

The dodgy soldering was actually on a what looked like power resistor and also on a standard resistor.

 

The cluster has beeped when towing a trailer once, when indicating. And when having relay 30 issues.

 

I will listen carefully when next in the car to the beginning of my journey, I haven't heard anything previously suggesting the ABS pump being tested.

 

Wifes on a 12 hour shift tomorrow but I will try and get some time to further investigate.

[petemc]

Well, I've just moved the LEDs from the 'door open' warning to the 'ABS' and 'Brake Warning' (not alternator as reported earlier, duh..) positions with predictable results I suppose. I now have two nicely lit ABS and Brake warning LEDs!

 

The front offside speed sensor ring is split but is firmly rusted onto the shaft and does not move so I don't think that is the problem (it may have been originally though).

Fuses are ok, connectors seem fine. Sensors were checked by a good ex Ford technician last year and were reported ok. I will check them myself tomorrow, after I have found out how to do it. Next stop is check Ford TIS disc for further clues.

Is it worth getting an auto electrical guy on the job with suitable diagnostic equipment?

[Mirez]

Yes, Vag-Com should tell you the reasons behind the lights or at least give you a good starter. Where abouts are you located? There may be someone on here who will do it for you?

[petemc]

That would be very helpful, I'd even pop out to buy some choccy biscuits! I live in the Chester area.

Research so far has me thinking possible faulty brake fluid level switch, ABS controller or there was an interesting fault with Mondeos requiring a resistor to be soldered across a couple of pins on the connector in the passenger footwell - not sure if this applicable to Galaxys also.

Any additional pointers always appreciated. :)

[Mirez]

Well thats a little far for me! ;) but worth putting a post out to see if anyone more local to you would do it!

 

Since both of them are lit its seeing a fault with the braking circuit as well so in theory the most likely cause is a faulty level switch - I would certainly start there at least

[petemc]

A guy at work has lent me something called 'Gendan Engine Check Pro'. Similar to vag com?

I'm going to give it a go - can't find the connector it fits into yet though. Somewhere around the fuse/relay box, is that right?

Will keep you posted.

[big_kev]

A guy at work has lent me something called 'Gendan Engine Check Pro'. Similar to vag com?

I'm going to give it a go - can't find the connector it fits into yet though. Somewhere around the fuse/relay box, is that right?

Will keep you posted.

 

Personally I would remove the ashtray

[petemc]

Update -

Found connector underneath the ashtray.

Managed to get Gendan communicating with galaxy.

'No reported fault codes' though! Tries several different cycles of turning engine on/off, ignition only on/off, rebooting software, etc.

Was able to see live data, rpm, throttle position, oxygen sensors, etc, but still no errors.

Looks like I'm back to basics for now then.

[big_kev]

IIRC....Gendan will only check the engine.....not the ABS or anything else.

[petemc]

Brake fluid level switch is working ok.

Front wheel speed sensors, when disconnected read >20Mohm (i.e. open circuit) even if I spin the wheel. I vaguely remember seeing somewhere on this site that they should have a resistance of approx 1.2K?

Anyway, I decided to remove one for further testing....By the time it came off it was a brush and dustpan job - it required drilling out!

I think I will check one of the rear ones next before I drill the other front sensor out.

Can anyone confirm the resistance of these sensors?

[seatkid]

Of course, the basic problem is you bought a pup that had been illegally doctored. Because this is safety related, I suspect you could still hold the seller liable although your acceptance of "something wrong but I will ignore it" over several years makes your case somewhat weaker.

 

It sounds as if the seller had a serious problem that wasnt easy to fix and therefore went to elaborate lengths to disguise that fact. I don't think a simple sensor problem would have warranted him stripping and doctoring the instrument cluster. You might end up replacing lots of expensive bits before you get things working as they should.

 

Good luck.

[petemc]

Yes...thanks for that input seatkid.

 

Unfortunately, I still now have to deal with it. Perhaps someone else out there can answer my question about the resistance of the abs sensor?

[seatkid]

Yes...thanks for that input seatkid.

My pleasure.....

 

Unfortunately, I still now have to deal with it. Perhaps someone else out there can answer my question about the resistance of the abs sensor?

Why not help yourself and search the forum. I'm sure the answer is there somewhere :rolleyes:

 

Or, as you now need a new sensor anyway, why not buy one and measure it?

 

Or, .....somehow I think you don't want to hear any more of my suggestions......

[big_kev]

Pete, go download a copy of vagcom http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/download/

 

Buy a cheap cable from ebay...loads available.

 

Find a laptop or move your pc into the car.

 

example....http://www.vagcom.co.uk/vagcom_demo.html

[petemc]

Just a quick update for those who were kind enough to offer assistance.

 

I have managed to get through the MOT :lol: so can return to being a fair weather biker again!

 

I purchased a cheap USB serial interface cable off ebay, downloaded the free copy of vag-com, borrowed a laptop from work and spent a frustrating evening attempting to get the thing communicating with the car.

I kept overlooking the fact that the Ross Tech information states that the USB port selection on the software does not work with

[petemc]

Well, 2 weeks off work resulted in trips to safari park, beach, zoo, bowling,et, etc but no work on the car except for drilling out and replacing the other front wheel speed sensor. Tonight I finally returned the dash to standard and fitted 2 new LEDs. All dash illumination appears to be behaving themselves! I have yet to connect a laptop back onto the car or test the brakes in slippery conditions, but so far so good. I heard a new noise yesterday when braking which I am assuming was the ABS pump briefly having a go (inappropriately, I was braking in good conditions but perhaps I still have an intermittent fault on the broken ring well spaced off sensor). I am interpretting this as an encouraging sign anyway.

Thanks again for the guidance and assistance.