Cruise Control 2.3 Petrol

[mikej]

Ok i am on another quest to sort this out once again , had the perished hose , replaced and it worked for a while complete with light on dash , then had the pump full of water and rusted to hell and back managed to bring that back to life and again it ran well for a few months and went again so i fitted a brand new pump from the main stealer and it hasn't worked since . I have a click from dash when selected at the stalk but no light on dash and no cruise , pump works on bench but what i wanna do is rig it up so i can have it sat next to me on passenger seat whilst driving at 20mph + select from stalk and see it myself , what i need to know it what i should expect to get from pump when i select it at the stalk and travelling above the required speed , if any of you have any good advice as to what i should expect it would be most helpful and one final question does anyone on this forum know where the bloody cruise control module is on a 2001 petrol GAL it most definately isn't behind stereo , does anyone have a picture or part number to help me identify it anything ? :ph34r: Think it may be just above the pedals under dash , small silver fag packet siize but need more info to identify it before i pull something i shouldn't lol.

mike.....

[mikej]

Just an update on the cruise control quest , i finally rigged the vac pump so i could have it next to me on the passenger seat , when at the right speed i select the cruise via the end of the stalk and the pump comes to life , although its abit stop/start the relay on the pump is also clicking in and out . What i have noticed is when either the clutch or brake pedal is applied this kills the pump dead as it should so these two switches seem to be working . When i select cruise on a level road the pump makes a little noise pumping but still cannot hold speed but going up a hill its pumping like mad and when going down a hill and the cars goes over the selected speed the relay in the pump clicks like mad now i,m thinking all is possibly well electrically and the pump is struggling to keep the vaccum more so going up hill or under load and maybe the relay is making racket going down hill to dump pressure ? I strongly believe my problem now is due to a split or perished hose somewhere but having no idea were the hell this hose goes when leaving the pump i am at a loss , can anybody offer some help as to the path of the vaccume pipe / diagram or otherwise before i rip the car to pieces . Any help would be great

mike......

[Mirez]

From the motor is passes through a large hole in the wing into the engine bay, runs under the battery compartment and connects to a plastic tube, this carries up and around to the top right of the engine bay, from there it reverts to rubber and passes along the back of the engine bay to the other side, after another brief spell of plastic it turns back into rubber again and dissapears down the rear left of the engine bay. About 15cm down it passes through a grommet and arrives into the cabin above the brake pedal.

 

It was the piece between brake pedal and engine bay that had perished on mine in... wait for it.... SIX places! Replaced with fuel grade hose from a local motor factors,

[mikej]

Firstly the cruise has worked previously so i know the pipework is there somewhere , from the vaccum pump i have a 8" piece of rubber tubing that like you say connects to a plastic pipe this goes through the inner wing under the battery tray into some large plastic truncking with many other wires , its here were i lost it . You mention it travels up to the top right hand side of the engine bay when / where does it change back to rubber , does it at any stage go near the inlet manifold / cam cover etc or am i looking at a different pipe , does it stay in the engine bay or does it go up under the scuttle tray at all , you mention you had an issue with the tubing from the brake pedal what sytems did you have . Just purchased 3 metres of fuel pipe myself hoping to get to the bottom of it. Sorry for all the questions but i have no idea how the bloody system works , i mean how does a vaccum hold the speed constant ?

thanks for the info MIREZ

Edited May 29, 2008 by mikej

[Mirez]

It is one of the weirdest speed control systems I've ever seen to be fair, the pump creates a vacumme and this pulls/pushes on a diaphram assembly in the cabin which pulls/pushes on the throttle pedel - which of course then actuates the throttle body... talk about complicated! (At least thats my understanding!)

 

I had the exact same system on my 2.3, the TD is different. After it enters the engine bay and joins that trunking its very shortly after that it connects to the plastic pipe (which was white on mine for reference) - you should be able to find that join without any problem as its very close to the trunking start - or again was on mine.

 

I can't overly remember the upper right section as that wasn't at fault on mine, I recall the white pipe travelling right at the back of the engine compartment next to the ABS pipework and it was in the engine bay, deffo not under the scuttle. Then in ran down as I said and into the cabin. Its purely a pipe from the pump into the cabin and isn't connected in anyway to anything in the engine bay.

 

I'm thinking more about the white pipe and I think it actually ran from under that battery tray area right up and across to the back left without converting back, it changed back in the top left for certain.

[mikej]

Thanks again mate if like you say its simply a pipe from pump to pedal and it doesn't go anywhere in between then that should make it a lot easier to follow , backwards if neccessary , the plastic pipe like a say on mine (2.3 2001) starts under the wing approx 6" from pump . Still cannot get my head around the workings mind , i'm guessing with regards to what the pump was doing today once activated and i had a gas conversion done last year and there is now a vaccum fed flash lube system on it , pipes everywhere will have to dig deeper i think

thanks again

mike..... :ph34r:

[Mirez]

An overview from a well known resouce: :ph34r:

 

"The vacuum pump is electrically driven, this makes the system independent of intake manifold pressure. The speed control actuator is connected to the accelerator pedal, when vacuum is applied the actuator diaphragm acts via a rod onto the accelerator pedal. This eliminates the need for a separate vehicle speed control cable.

 

Both the brake pedal and clutch pedal (if equipped) have deactivator switches. The deactivator switch(es) has a combination of both electrical and pneumatic control. When the brake or clutch pedal is depressed the deactivator switch opens and vents the system's vacuum to atmosphere. The resultant loss of vacuum ensures that the throttle is completely closed. In addition to the deactivator switch venting to atmosphere, an electrical contact is opened in the deactivator switch, the loss of the ground signal is processed through the speed control module which opens the solenoid valve in the vacuum pump."

[Mauser]

Hi Mike, sounds like your having same troubles as me, just stripped panels down from below fuse board as described on the TIS CD and removed the vacuum unit, sucking on this causes the linkage arm to the throttle to pull back. Din't help me resolve my problems all the hoses seem perfect under the dash, but it does vanish through the bulkhead and even lying under the car I am struggling to see where it comes out, higher up right @ the back I can find the other end of the white hard plastic pipe which goes through and underneath the battery, I have also replaced the line from the end of this pipe to the vacuum pump. Took the pump to bits as best you can, removing the plastic cover and powered up the pump and it ran fine, the relay does seem the dodgy bit ?, you mentioned yours clicking in & out well mine does the same, wouldn't have thought this would be the case, I agree as posted above about the electrical control dropping the earth to the relay as this dumping the vaccum if any present. Could really do with an indicator wired to the pump to see if the signal is there @ speed. Most annoying with out the CC but hopefully we can resolve this slight problem. Edited May 30, 2008 by Mauser

[mikej]

Waa hay listen up people it bloody works :angry: after two and a half years i can put my dash back together ( if i can find all the bloody bits ) my cruise control is working spot on at last , Mirez your a star ! When you said its all one piece from pump to pedal thats all i needed lol . As i mentioned i wired the pump up on the passenger seat already so i could see first hand if it was kicking in , i then on your info found the other end of the plastic tubing at the left hand side of the engine bay , at the joint where it goes from plastic to rubber ( just before going through the bulkhead ) i pulled it apart and sucked on it there was suction at the pump which would suggest no leaks ? don't you believe it ! i then simply ran a length of tube from the pump on the passenger seat to the pedal , drove the car above 20mph and selected the cruise from the stalk and it worked with the pump making the same noises to maintain the speed ( so that was working fine) it works fine and after 290 miles its going great NOTE once the tubing arrives at the left hand side of the engine bay its a nightmare to follow due to very little room and even if all looks well or in my case sucks well don't believe it , simply run a length of tubing from pump to pedal to eliminate any damaged pipework !

Mauser give it a go mate your pump sounds fine . By the way the new tubing to test and replace the existing pipework cost me

Edited May 30, 2008 by mikej

[Mirez]

Fantastic news, glad my info helped! Like I said it was this pipe that had perished on mine so might be the cause of a few others. Its very difficult to follow though so you have my sympathys on that one, I could see the first perished bit and so just replaced the whole thing, it wasn't until it was out that I could see the state of it! Anywho glad its working!

[Mauser]

Not that lucky Mike, just hot wired the pump and I get a great vaccum @ the vacuum unit under the dash, I really think it's electrical as mechanically now there is nothing else to test, if pedal switches were faulty (mechanically) then I would'nt achieve a vacuum @ the unit. Looking @ the pump there are 3 terminals 1 which goes to the negative side of the pump motor the middle 1 goes to what appears is either the NO or NC contact on the relay and the third connector I presume is the supply ?. I would imaging for fail safe if the foot switches (electrical) are pressed or the CC is turned off that the supply to the pump is lost and also by doing so the relay drops out and the vacuum is lost via the small link pipe running to the relay, would make sense but could do with knowing what supplies I should have when @ correct speed. Also to increase the speed via the stalk does the pump have a variable speed ability to increase it's rpm to achieve a greater vacuum and hence pull open the throttle valve more ?.

Glad yours is sorted all the same :angry:

 

Found this on the TIS CD http://www.mortal-souls.com/mauser/crusie.jpg

shows the electrical power coming from the Speed Control Module but no idea where it is ?.

Edited May 30, 2008 by Mauser

[mikej]

Quote Not that lucky Mike, just hot wired the pump and I get a great vaccum @ the vacuum unit under the dash

 

Not quite sure what you mean i bypassed the pipework in the engine bay and ran a pipe direct from the pump to the t piece fitting where the pipe from the bulk head normally goes on next to the brake pedal so i would assume the smaller lengths of rubber pipe at the two switches were ok , as already mentioned i managed to create a good vaccume on the existing pipework and this threw me for a while as it still didn't work ! only when i bypassed the lot did it come to life ( looks like the smallest hole/split will be enough to mess it up ) As for the two pedal switches they are simple to check with a meter if you have one , either normally open or closed , if i can find my meter i will find out tomorrow for you , i will also measure the live feeds whilst switching and driving on cruise and during pedal operation . :angry: With ref to the pump having variable speed capability note the pump does not run constantly , once the set speed ( & required vaccume) is achieved its quiet unless you over speed say going down a hill in which case the relay in the pump clicks its socks off dumping the pressure i think , if it however dumps to much and you are now going up a steep hill then the pump will ativate to achieve a stronger vaccume to keep speed under load . WELL I THINK THATS WHATS GOING ON ?

Edited May 30, 2008 by mikej

[Mauser]

what I mean Mike is that the pipe work certainly looks sound I have checked all under dash and replaced the section from battery white plastic to the pump, only part I cannot get to is the bit in the engine bay back of the bulkhead. I would say the way the vacuum unit pulled up when I ran the pump manually that it is 100% sound. Got to be electrical or a faulty relay within the pump.

Any voltage reading would be appreciated, I have several meters knocking about.

wiring colours are

BU/WH = Blue & White

BK = Black

BN/RD = Brown & Red

If anyone knows what this represent this also would help :angry:

Edited May 30, 2008 by Mauser

[mikej]

If i,m being honest almost everyone has changed the small length from the pump to the plastic pipe as this it seems is the most common piece to fail i had done my own before , however i cannot stress enough for the price of a length of pipe bypass the lot , pump to the pedal , its easy to do even if you have to drive down the road with the pipe coming from under the bonnet and through the passenger window lol.. :angry:

[Mauser]

Didn't mention earlier but I did something similar I ran a length of pipe from the bump minus front indicator to the drivers seat and drove down the road, clicked the CC on relay on the dash went "click" but no vacuum whatsoever down the pipe.

[Mauser]

After some testing this morning and attaching an LED to various places there is a supply going to the pump + supply when pulling the cruise control stalk outwards to turn on, however as soon as this is released the supply is lost and this corresponds with the relay which clicks on then off under the dash on the near side. Now next task is to find out what maintains the relay contact when the crusie is enabled or more to the point what disables it, it's definatly not the brake switch whilst holding the stalk out and getting my nice LED on soon as the brake is touched it drops the supply so least thats not the problem.

Will be something silly when I find it, just a bit hard going finding stuff to test etc, hope it's not the CC module ?.

[stev1e]

Hi

I am just a newbie here so sorry if this seems a daft question

I have a 1999 2.3 ghia. Is there a light on the dash that lights when the Cruise control is engaged ?

I dont know if maybe I cannot work it properly or if its broken

Thanks

Steven

[mikej]

On my own mk2 2.3 ghia there was indeed a little light that used to light up on the dash clocks ( rev conter side i think ) this dissapeared when my cruise died and didn't return even after i managed to repair it , it maybe connected to the little red dash computer that displays your average speed/mpg etc as this also dissapeared about the same time and still hasn't reappered ? :)

[stev1e]

Thanks for that

can you tell me how to check the pump works ie what wires to connect to positive and what to connect to negative

thanks again

steven

[cell]

Well i've been reading all the posts i could find about CC faults.. I've managed to replace the pipe from the pump to the white pipe & the other end near the air intake to the T-Piece under the dash...I still dont get a click or light on the dash when i turn it on..When i got my gal the fuse for the amp/stereo was removed as it was causing the battery to die( only found out after i put it back in & tried to start the car the next day) I'm unable to figure out which fuse powers the CC from the fuse card in ther fuse box, the symbols arent the most clear & i dont really want to buy a haynes just for one fuse. any help would be much appreciated.

[evocator]

Hi There, I have read so many posts on the CC system, but none seem to match my fault.

 

I have replaced the rubber hoses;no joy. I ran a bypass pipe from the pump to the T-piece by the pedals; no joy.

 

I rigged a length of three core wire to extend from the pump electrical connector to the pump which I sat on the passenger seat at 50 MPH I engaged CC, but the pump did not start. I have flashed the pump directly from the battery positive to the red/brown pump connector and negative to the black connector and the pump sprang into action. I have also taken the lid off the pump and all looks like new inside.

 

I have checked all the fuses and none have blown, but there are a few empty slots. Does anyone know which fuse controls the CC and where the relays are?

 

Any other suggestions would be much appreciated ;o)

 

Thanks

[cell]

Hi....Just wanted to add my discovery onto this post...

 

I decided to try to trace the wires from the control stalk to see where they went... I found the wires from the CC controls ontop of the indicator stalk box & noticed that the red & black wire were broken right at the point where they go into the stalk tube...

Heres how I repaired it....

 

I had to remove the whole assembly from the car so i could repair the wires..I carefully cut the black protective sleeve off the rest of the wires to allow them to move, then I undid the clip holding the connector to the assembly. Then I used a small screwdriver to prise the button off the front of the stalk & then carefully prised the outer cover off the stalk itself (theres a small hole in the back where it clips into). Once this was removed I slide the button assembly out while feeding the wires from the conncetor into the hole. This allowed me to strip the wires & solder them together, a quick reverse of the process & all done.

 

Still haven't got the light to work on the dash, but it scarred the hell out of me when it did work, thought the throttle was jammed as it didn't work instantly.

 

I hope this helps, I did have to replace the pipes from the pump & checked the pump for corrosion but it didn't fix the problem till I stumbled on the broken wires... Broken wires seem to plaque Gals, maybe ford should've stuck with the overkill wires they used to use in older cars.

 

One less thing to fix.

[sye]

seems like im not the only one with no cruise control is this a common problem with the galaxy mine is 2.3 petrol automatic 2000 never worked since i had it infact didnt even know i had it lol

[paolone]

Waa hay listen up people it bloody works :lol: after two and a half years i can put my dash back together ( if i can find all the bloody bits ) my cruise control is working spot on at last , Mirez your a star ! When you said its all one piece from pump to pedal thats all i needed lol . As i mentioned i wired the pump up on the passenger seat already so i could see first hand if it was kicking in , i then on your info found the other end of the plastic tubing at the left hand side of the engine bay , at the joint where it goes from plastic to rubber ( just before going through the bulkhead ) i pulled it apart and sucked on it there was suction at the pump which would suggest no leaks ? don't you believe it ! i then simply ran a length of tube from the pump on the passenger seat to the pedal , drove the car above 20mph and selected the cruise from the stalk and it worked with the pump making the same noises to maintain the speed ( so that was working fine) it works fine and after 290 miles its going great NOTE once the tubing arrives at the left hand side of the engine bay its a nightmare to follow due to very little room and even if all looks well or in my case sucks well don't believe it , simply run a length of tubing from pump to pedal to eliminate any damaged pipework !

Mauser give it a go mate your pump sounds fine . By the way the new tubing to test and replace the existing pipework cost me

[Mauser]

OK only taken me 11 months to sort but finally fixed my cruise control, ended up being broken wire and nothing to do with the control module, pump or hose; said all along it would be electrical :lol:.

Least when we go to sunny Wales in August I can use it.