Coolant Leak

[mikeprice]

Just spoke to a mate he is an ex Ford Mechanic and says that if the bottom hose is cool the water is not circulating I should be looking for a blockage either in the Radiator or in the water jacket of the cyclinder head, alternatively the water pump is faulty though he wouldn't think it was that given that I have had a good poke around it.

 

Booked the Radiator in with a rad place to get it tested

Edited April 20, 2008 by mikeprice

[Ex-Galaxy person]

Hi Mike,

 

When I do my water pump next weekend, I'm going to take the thermostat out and put a hosepipe down the top hose to see if it flushes through OK - and reverse flush the rad. I think we have identical problems!

 

Phillip

[woody151171]

i have the alhambra 1997 2 ltr petrol and mine does the same hot hose on top cold bottom hose ,sometimes overheats sometimes doesnt, had it for 2yrs now and it as always been the same ,so i cant see it being a head gasket,but dont know the answer,i just top up every week

[TimK]

i'm too am having overheating / coolant loss problems too. It's a long story but here's the short version.

I've had a very slow coolant leak for a while but just kept topping up but on the last bank holiday the car vented lots of coolant out of the expansion tank while climbing up to Shap, a long climb on the M6, with the car fully loaded. We've had all the tests done, sniffer, pressure etc and it was put down to a dodgy expansion tank cap. The cap has been replaced now but i'm still having problems with coolant being vented. But there's something else to throw in the pot now, the run on pump had packed up before the overheating problem started and i'm not sure whether this is now causing a problem.

 

Every time i try to top the system up i'm getting air locks, particularly in the rear heater. The front heater can be red hot but the rear is cold. Is this due to the run on pump not circulating coolant, not moving the air locks to the expansion tank?

 

Am i right in thinking that the run on pump pushes the coolant round the rear heating system inc aux heater and rear blower heater?? or should the normal water pump be able to circulate coolant all the way to the rear of the car?

 

If there are airlocks present in the system can this cause overheating / venting?

 

Any help will be appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

TimK

[mikeprice]

Well I have the water pump out in front of me and can't see anything wrong with it, it is new and the impeller seems to work fine, so its a case of whats next for me Edited April 22, 2008 by mikeprice

[mikeprice]

Well I think it was just an airlock all that messing about and today I put the waterpump back and and rebuilt the other aux bracket bits, did a 2 part rad flush and it was still boiling up, tried a reverse flush and still the same.

 

Finally a mate suggested filling hte whole system with water and forcing the pipes back on whilst the hose was running the water around, after 70 miles at 80-85 mph up and down dale its not boiled once.

 

Could it really of been that simple?

 

Still need to put another new thermostat in as I have left it out at the moment (it was still boiling without it though) and refill with antifreeze etc but I will leave it a few days just whilst I make sure it was just an airlock, that way if it start to play up again after I do that I will know its airlocked again not jus a reoccurance.

 

Thanks for all the help and suggestions

Edited April 25, 2008 by mikeprice

[Ex-Galaxy person]

Mike,

 

I hope it holds. I've had to delay doing my waterpump - I carried my daughter down the stairs yesterday, as I've done hundreds of times before, but this time I did something to my back. Grrrr! and I was actually looking forward to taking it apart.

 

Phillip

[Ex-Galaxy person]

here's the latest.....

 

Water pump has now been replaced, but it's still overheating if driven over 2K rpm or 60mph in 5th. Garage carried out another sniff test that was inconclusive - the dye didn't turn yellow, but the mechanic said it may have turned a lighter shade of blue. Their theory is that it's a crack that's opening up as the engine gets hotter.

 

The cooling system is still pressurising, and it seems to be down to an airlock preventing coolant circulation (bottom hose is cold). This airlock is caused by either the possible crack in the cyclinder head or HG, or by a faulty expansion tank cap (cap no 2 has been abused a bit by now by oveheating). If the engine is run with the cap off, then the coolant flows normally.

 

I've got an expansion tank cap on order (no 3!). If that doesn't fix it it must be the head or HG, despite no other indicators. Everything else has been done (cooling system flushed, new pump, thermostat).

 

Phillip

[fedupwithjunk]

I have had exactly the same problems over the last 12 months we have been intermittantly losing coolant. Every hose has been checked.

 

Last summer we drove all the way to Lyon from peterborough before anything happened and this was the first time it actually started over heating. We made it back filling up with water ever half hour or so until we found out if we kept the revs below 2.5k all was fine. Its been getting worse throughout the winter and now its serious - over heats after just a few miles.

 

Coolant seems to be rising forcing air into the system stopping thermostat opening and / or water pump pumping. Radiator remains cold even after engine over heats.

 

Cambelt was due in 3k miles so water pump was done with the cambelt change - no difference.

 

Sniffer test negative so garage are reluctant to tackle HG on the off chance that its gone.

 

I have spent the whole of today rechecking everything and have discovered a couple of things

 

1. Warm up engine with coolant cap off and I notice water level shoots up and fizzes when engine revved highly (btw everything runs fine if you drive with it off except water slowly boils away)

 

2. Black oily deposit inside coolant tank has appeared in the last week.

 

3. Ford put too many damn pipes on this engine.

 

Pretty sure its HG now, going to shake the last few pennies out of the wallet and cross my fingers. :31:

 

Just hope its not a cracked head or block - but surely the oil would have shown some emulsion by now?

[jkspoff]

Sorry to hear about your coolant issues, this was something I never got to the bottom of with mine, eventually got rid of it.......keep us updated about the HG.

[fedupwithjunk]

The Gal went back to the garage and they have had it for 3 days and have just called me to say they didn't do the head gasket because they are sure that that is not the problem?

 

They did put a new cap on the expansion tank and replaced the pipe on the expansion tank for one without a restricter in it. Test drove it for 25 miles and it sat at a a steady 90 degrees.

 

They are quoting

[jkspoff]

Have you checked for an air lock in the radiator ?

Sorry, ignore this post, just read your previous posts !

Edited May 9, 2008 by jkspoff

[fedupwithjunk]

This is driving me nuts now.

 

Today I checked it was topped up and drove 90 miles without problem.

 

Then a couple of hours later drove 3 miles and the coolant warning STOP came on.

 

I left it for 20 minutes without doing anything to it and it now drives fine again.

 

Its not a sensor error - the water level is actually going down / being forced down?

 

I am pretty sure air is being forced in somehow but if its not the HG what is it?

[jkspoff]

I would say after reading through all your posts that it has to be the head gasket, there appears to be nothing left that you haven't already tried. Its annoying that it can't be diagnosed, but I can't seem to think of anything else left to try.

There is one last thing you could try:

1. Remove the under tray

2. Place a large sheet of something under the engine

3. Let the engine run for a long time until at least running temperature

4. Get under the car and see if there are any areas with leaked coolant staining the sheet

It works with oil leaks, maybe it'll show up a problem area.

 

Just a thought, but have you tried replacing the coolant bottle and local coolant pipes.

[sepulchrave]

Ok, this is gonna be controversial (because it's expensive) but here goes:

 

Undiagnosed coolant overpressurisation is nearly always caused by porosity/cracking in the head casting, this is particularly so in turbocharged applications.

This is why you can easily buy (cheap) pattern head castings for the vast majority of common applications.

 

Good garages know this and send heads for pressure testing even if they're not visibly warped.

A sniff test will never pick this problem up.

In fact many of these problems only manifest themselves in a particular range of temparatures, heads which pass a pressure test when cold may need to be baked and retested while hot.

 

This is an extremely common phenomenon across the motor trade.

Even GSF sells bare head castings for all the turbodiesels, never wondered why?

 

So, when you have exhausted every other possibility and you don't wanna sell the car then whip the head off and get it tested.

 

Remember this: Just because you can't find the problem doesn't mean there isn't one.

Also remember: There isn't anything secret going on inside a car engine, they all work the same way, it's just that some go wrong more than others! :rolleyes:

[TimK]

I have to agree with you, after tryin all the obvious things to solve our Gals pressurising / overheating problem the car has had the head stripped off and they think its a cracked head. It's gone for pressure testing but its looking like it is cos you can see a very faint hairline crack about 2-3mm long. So it's looking like it's time for a reconditioned head, expensive but we want to keep the car.

[fedupwithjunk]

Can you tell us what sort of figure we are talking about for replacing the head with a new / recon?

[fedupwithjunk]

After looking around the internet and asking a few more mechanics I think I bought a dud. I think the oily deposit in my expansion tank is the remains of a rad weld type fix the previous owner must have done and the stuff has worked its way loose. My problems appeared about a year after buying the car and have steadily got worse over the year.

 

Having spent over

[TimK]

Well, the Gal is back on the road with a repaired cylinder head (stitched and welded), new timing belt, new water pump and stat. So far so good, done a few hundred miles and fingers crossed the overheating / pressuring of the water system in no more :) We haven't had the bill yet but it's gonna be a whopper but i'm just happy that i'm back on the road.

[seatkid]

[Rant mode on]

Personally I feel that that a lot of these mysterious "its not the water pump or thermostat" type overheating problems are simply cracked/damaged heads due to previous owners chipping or adding "tuning" boxes. This highly unsavoury practice is more common than you think (I just dont believe that almost new cars, volvos seem to be a favourite, smoke so much in standard form).

 

Its rarely reported to their insurance and at the first sign of trouble the box is whipped off and the car sold as having "one careful owner" to some innocent mug.

 

Its not true that the difference the various bhp variants from VW is just the software.

 

Thank ebay for most of this crap.

[Rant mode off]

[Ex-Galaxy person]

As I started this thread I guess I should end it.

 

After new water pump, timing belt, thermostat, it was still pressurising/boiling over. Sniff test was still negative even on a hot engine and there were no other symptoms. I was never convinced it was HG gasket failure or cracked cylinder head, and as the bottom hose was always cold I was sure it was an airlock. I took the radical step of running the car with the (new) expansion tank cap slackened off (so system never pressurised). Result: a lot of coolant all over the place, but you could then put the cap on properly and we had a cooling system that actually flowed - bottom hose on the rad became warm, and you could run it up to 70mph+ without it overheating, and it wasn't venting coolant any more.

 

This is all in the past tense, as we have parted company with the Gal now; it's future was under review anyway - as it turned out nobody in the family liked it except me (wife/daughters complained of hard seats and backache), and although it was economical for such a large vehicle, I was spending more on fuel (especially with rising fuel costs) than I wanted to. We decided it was too big for our needs, so we have gone our separate ways. I liked driving it and it was generally reliable, but times change.....

 

Thanks to everyone on this forum for their advice and good humour.

[jkspoff]

Its a great shame that you had to sell it, I had identical problems with mine last year, and eventually never got to the bottom of it, so ended up trading it in. I missed it a lot though, so I have bought another, I would love to know what the issue was with both yours and my old one, I more than likely suspect it was the head gasket, even though as you and others have mentioned it showed no obvious signs.

Stick around, you may well be back one day..........Once driven forever smitten !

[fedupwithjunk]

Well the K-seal seemed to have a positive effect - everything seemed pretty good for about a week then I went to France and after driving 200 miles we were just about to stop for a coffee and the "STOP" warning re-appeared. Highly pressurised and low expansion tank needed topping up. ( and again ten minutes later) 200 miles later did the same, then every trip I notice the water was getting lower each time and needed topping up.

 

Can anyone who traded theirs in tell me if the garages do any checking of the vehicle first (ie will I be able to trade it in?) I can't face spending any more money on the thing.

 

BTW it drives fine and averaged 48mpg on the french trip.

[Ex-Galaxy person]

Can anyone who traded theirs in tell me if the garages do any checking of the vehicle first (ie will I be able to trade it in?) I can't face spending any more money on the thing.

 

Depends on the dealer and age of car. We went to a main dealer and an independent. The main dealer gave it a quick once over, offered the book price and said they would send it off to auction - and not even one in the area. The independent was more thorough as he was going to resell it. By the time we did the part-ex it was actually behaving itself, but we were actually selling it because it no longer suited our needs, not to get rid of it (well, not much!). That said, I would not have been comfortable selling it privately, in case it started to play up again, so we lost money by part-exing it, but only about the same as it would have cost to be be sure it was definitely OK. Like you (and others on this forum), the real frustration was the fact that the car performed fantastically except for that one problem.

 

There is a moral dilemma here: I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable palming off a faulty car on a small independent who has no workshop facilities to fix it and may be trying to make a living just like me; however, I'd have no problem passing it on to a main dealer who is going to auction it off anyway, as that's part of the risk of buying at auction - and anyone who chooses to buy from an auction should be aware of that risk. In my view, if you want to minimise the risk of the problem being spotted, go for a main dealer.

[jkspoff]

The Galaxy that I traded in, the dealer didn't even start it up, just gave me book price and did the deal. As mentioned above, the main agents and large car supermarket garages just trade them to auction anyway, don't feel guilty, the next person will more than likely have a warranty on it. I don't suppose anyone has got part reg SUG have they ?