Unusual Starting Problem

[geoffandjen]

Hi All,

 

Have been watching this site for a little while, absolutely brilliant information. Need some help with unusual starting problem. I have a Jan 97 2.8i Galaxy Ghia x. Had the car 6 years and been very happy (apart from petrol bill!). Battery replaced 2 years ago, and also recently had electrician fix Aircon front blower motor.

 

Since then, have had the unusual starting problem. Most times now, the starter really struggles to turn engine, turns very slowly, but gets a little bit faster, clicking begins, if key stays turned. After about 6-10 secs car fires into life. Runs no problem. Car used daily, this situation repeats itself almost all of the time. although occasionally it starts completely normally! Suspected flat battery and had to use jump leads a couple of times, a slight improvement to the starting pattern occurred after a long journey, but had the battery looked at (by Kwik Fit who supplied it). Battery appears ok.

 

Some of the symptoms match the relay 30 problems I have just read about, but not all. I am suspicious that the electrician may have disturbed something during his dashboard partial removal for Aircon problem. If anybody can help with this diagnosis, I would be very grateful. I am no mechanic, although years ago used to fix everything on my Escort 1300 GT Mk 1. Regards

Geoff

[NikpV]

sounds a bit like a battery problem - heating a effact of current being drawn can liven up a battery as a temporary thing so would get better umm may be a bit cynical to consider that kwik fit may be avaoiding a warranty issue :lol:

[Dave-G]

I'm thinking battery too.

 

Winter sorts out the good ones from the bad ones. As it's going to be colder in the next few days see if it worsens in comparison to the last week or so of mild temperatures.

 

Starting ok with jump leads would tend to confirm this

[geoffandjen]

I'm thinking battery too.

 

Winter sorts out the good ones from the bad ones. As it's going to be colder in the next few days see if it worsens in comparison to the last week or so of mild temperatures.

 

Starting ok with jump leads would tend to confirm this

[geoffandjen]

I'm thinking battery too.

 

Winter sorts out the good ones from the bad ones. As it's going to be colder in the next few days see if it worsens in comparison to the last week or so of mild temperatures.

 

Starting ok with jump leads would tend to confirm this

Thanks Chaps. The Kwik Fit guy said to give it a charge and then see if that makes a difference. I have just this week bought a battery charger but need a couple of days to fully charge it. My warranty is valid for another few months on the battery. I will watch it over the next few cold days and take i back if the fully charged battery deteriorates again.

thanks again I will let you know how i get on.

PS My Wife said it must be the battery! what do I know?

Cheers

Geoff

[Neils TDi again]

Although most would point at the battery have you tried putting a jump lead between the negative on the battery and the engine as on most transverse mounted engines after a period of time has elapsed the earth cable to the engine tends to fracture and cause high resistance, the warming of the cable causes the copper to expand and hence, the engine starts to turn more easily after the initial attempts which heat the cable.

 

This also applies to the cable to the main starter feed but you should apply the jump lead to the positive for testing the starter cable.

[Smilge]

Geoff, the problem today with modern maintenance free batteries is that they have to be charged correctly. If not, and if the charging voltage exceeds 2.3 to 2.4 volts per cell, then this will lead to water consumption if you are using the lead acid type. Using the car to charge the battery once you have jumped it will exceed this voltage which will lead to the problems you are having. Another problem could be the build up of carbon on the starter solenoid contacts due to the low battery voltage where you are hearing the starter getting faster as the current increases. I would change the battery, have a look at the battery negative terminals and check out the pre-engage solenoid on the starter.

 

Chris

[geoffandjen]

Geoff, the problem today with modern maintenance free batteries is that they have to be charged correctly. If not, and if the charging voltage exceeds 2.3 to 2.4 volts per cell, then this will lead to water consumption if you are using the lead acid type. Using the car to charge the battery once you have jumped it will exceed this voltage which will lead to the problems you are having. Another problem could be the build up of carbon on the starter solenoid contacts due to the low battery voltage where you are hearing the starter getting faster as the current increases. I would change the battery, have a look at the battery negative terminals and check out the pre-engage solenoid on the starter.

 

Chris

Chris, Thank you for your thoughts. I intend to change the battery first as it is under warranty and KF have offered to do so, if the recharge does not work. This is the cheapest/easiest solution - if it solves the problem.

Neil, I will do the negative jump lead test also. Just for clarity - I connect a jump lead to negative at the battery, and anywhere on the engine and try a start. If it starts OK then the problem is the earth cable to the engine - correct? Second bit, I place jump lead on battery positive and anywhere on the engine again? What will this tell me?

Sorry but I am a novice on electrics.

Geoff

[NikpV]

I place jump lead on battery positive and anywhere on the engine again? What will this tell me

 

 

no this will short the battery out it needs to go to the starter motor.

[Neils TDi again]

no this will short the battery out it needs to go to the starter motor.

 

 

OMG did I really say on the engine ?

 

I do really mean as Nik has said on the main start terminal on the starter motor, not the little one the big 13 mm one.

[Neils TDi again]

This also applies to the cable to the main starter feed but you should apply the jump lead to the positive for testing the starter cable.

 

 

Thank God I didnt say to the engine..........

[bigdaddy]

Sorry guys I am going to be the ODD one here,,,,,,every body has pointed to a battery problem,,,,,,,sounds like a lazy starter motor,,,,get it serviced/reconditioned or replace the starter motor

[geoffandjen]

This also applies to the cable to the main starter feed but you should apply the jump lead to the positive for testing the starter cable.

 

 

Thank God I didnt say to the engine..........

Neil,

 

No you didn't suggest it, I just read it that way. Thanks for the clarification.

 

A few things to try, plus thanks Bigdaddy for starter motor suggestion. Will be checking all options starting with cheapest.

 

Geoff

[Smilge]

Geoff, if you're mechanically minded the lazy starter like Big D suggested is a good "starter" and you can do a lot to save yourself some money. Get it off, split it and clean the solenoid contacts and also the commutator segments.