Did Anyone See This Tv Program?

[El Dingo]

http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites.../programme.html

 

Worth a look - it seems that the basis for much of our present Government's taxation policy for transport may be seriously flawed.

[Gteuk]

Yes I saw it, in bits, and some I agree with CO2 is a natural cycle of life throughout and it does take about 100 years for change to be seen.

 

one thing you have got to look at though is we as a species have been doing unnatural things to the earth, cars, electricity, basically industrialisation so we are creating excessive fumes and toxins.

 

we cannot say we are not causing harm to the environment, because we are, whether this change in climate is anything to do with what has been going on over the last 20 - 30 years is another debate.

 

We are now trying to be green and using other forms to heat our homes, but this has also been investigated and some methods are not as green as we would first consider.

 

There is a theory that Ground Source Heat Exchanges are causing damage to the plant life around them, 1m below the earth is meant to be at a constant, but the heat pump forces cooler water through to be heated, this will surely cause a cooling effect on the ground.

 

I am no expert on this technology but I am sure someone will tell me if I am wrong, I am looking round the web for the details but cannot find it, I was told by a German ecologist at one of the tradeshows, who said that "GSHP may be banned in Germany".

[El Dingo]

A colleague of mine has just had a ground source heat-exchanger fitted in his house in Switzerland, where they seem to think it's very environmentally friendly! :) Now I can give him a hard time about how bad the Germans think he is. :)

 

This Channel 4 program supports a view that I have held for some time - that it's not carbon we should be worried about but pollution in general. Just like you said, Gteuk, 'fumes and toxins' are not a good thing...

 

Volcanos, as MattJr once said, add much more carbon dioxide to the atmosphere than we do.

 

I could even point out how nasty and polluting diesels are compared to petrol engines... :)

 

But the point I wanted to make is that we shouldn't sit here being taxed until the pips squeak on the basis of 'reducing carbon emmissions'. The debate is by no means over. In the meantime, let's be aware of the arguments, and let's make our voices heard.

[Scorpiorefugee]

I'm with Gteuk on this. We just can't continue to use up what has taken hundreds of millions of years to produce without having some effect but that program did put some very interesting facts into the discussion.

 

However, El dingo's original point is totally valid. I never cease to recoil in horror at the way our elected "intelligent and well informed" governments seem to jump on a vareity of bandwagons just because they seem to be in fashion. Their solutions to any problems always seem to do more harm to the innocent and well intended than the actual targets. Speed bumps, speed cameras, and don't they ever think that no-one actually enjoys being in a traffic jam and wouldn't be there if there was a viable alternative?

 

Another thing that puzzles me, although I may not have the facts right, is how using bio fuels is supposed to help. As I understand it, some of these are produced by fermentation and isn't CO2 a major by-product of fermentation?

Edited March 11, 2007 by Scorpiorefugee

[Gteuk]

Another thing that puzzles me, although I may not have the facts right, is how using bio fuels is supposed to help. As I understand it, some of these are produced by fermentation and isn't CO2 a major by-product of fermentation?

 

Bio fuels is nothing to do with CO² but to do with using renewable fuels, but then if we all start using bio fuels we will drain the the soil of its goodness so again in 100 years our children could be having a debate about using different methods to power vehicles.

 

I am having to learn a lot about the different ways of heating our homes and providing energy at the moment and I only see two logical choices, solar PV, Solar water (I class these as one) and airbourne heat exchangers.

 

Me saying air heat exchangers is good is weird as I do not sell them :) but certainly better than GSHP and the use of any other fossil fuels.

 

Within the next year my house will be run totally on solar for heating and electricity.

[Bigjeeze]

Another thing that puzzles me, although I may not have the facts right, is how using bio fuels is supposed to help. As I understand it, some of these are produced by fermentation and isn't CO2 a major by-product of fermentation?

 

Bio fuels is nothing to do with CO² but to do with using renewable fuels, but then if we all start using bio fuels we will drain the the soil of its goodness so again in 100 years our children could be having a debate about using different methods to power vehicles.

 

I am having to learn a lot about the different ways of heating our homes and providing energy at the moment and I only see two logical choices, solar PV, Solar water (I class these as one) and airbourne heat exchangers.

 

Me saying air heat exchangers is good is weird as I do not sell them :) but certainly better than GSHP and the use of any other fossil fuels.

 

Within the next year my house will be run totally on solar for heating and electricity.

 

 

How will you generate enough power to run your house from Solar? I assume your heating and cooking are Gas? Because as I understand it there isn't any way of Generating enough power to run a house from Solar - you just can't get enough power nor store it.

[Gteuk]

You are right you cannot get enough power for on demand energy and storage is limited, so being off grid is not an option.

 

What I mean by it is I will use a green energy provide, sell excess electric to them in the summer and draw it back in the winter so I won't have any bills, so to speak.

 

There are some electricity providers, very, very few that will pay you the same rate for your electricity as you pay them.

 

Hot water will be generated from solar vacume tubes and air heat exchanges, yes air heat exchangers and solar panels will work in the winter (just not as well).

 

For my household I can get away with a 2 - 3 Kwp array of panels for electric which should in theory give me profit at the end of each year (but lets wait and see) I could go one step further and get a turbine but I haven't got a lot of land and doubt planning permission would be forth coming.

 

The house should basically be self sustaining putting more back than I take out, more so as of next year as all kids in full time school and misses working which means less use of resources during the daytime.

 

What you may not be aware of is panels have greater output capabilities now, so less is needed, they also work when there is no sun (just not as efficient) so its only when there is major snow there is a problem.

[NikpV]

unfortunately a completely self sufficient house only saves you about 1.5 tonnes of the 11.1 tonnes per capita CO₂ which uk inhabitants generate per year and thats assuming that cooking is by electric (bought back by your plan Glen)

[Gteuk]

The thing is, if 1 houshold on every street made their house self sufficient this will make no difference in the slightest when it comes to electricity, the powerstation will still burn the same amount of fuel if it is providing for 100,000 houses or 200,000 houses.

 

So If I was doing it to reduce CO2 emmisions I would be wasting my time, I am doing it to save me money, I would like to say I am eco friendly and doing my bit for the environment but I would be lying.

 

I look at the rate of increasing bills at the moment and see that the payback time will be less than originally thought.

 

I have a slight benefit though as I got a free sample water heating system from a company which I will put in my house so it pays for itself immediatly.

 

All I need now is 18 sample PV panels and I am away.

[Guest MATT jr]

Volcanos, as MattJr once said, add much more carbon dioxide to the atmosphere than we do.

 

:) awww you remembered,

 

the subject of green house gasses and its effects (Ice age) has a lot of angles you can look at it...mine is, its the earths natural cycle thats happened before, and WILL happen again.

 

a lot of people are scare mongering, and the government is cashing in on the whole idea.

 

only yesterday i heard about "green air miles" -- can you guess? ANOTHER TAX...a TAX placed on airlines and air passengers for the damage done to the Planet. Air travel specialists argue, flying actually gives less CO2 emissions than other transport, compared with numbers moved etc. this TAX would be additional to any other TAX we already pay.

 

its a matter of time, before this "green miles tax" gets put on everything that moves...even us! next they will charge you for the number of farts you let out.

 

im worried on how this new form of taxation will affect Business...Can Airlines afford more tax in the current economic climate, and how will this affect companies such as Airbus? And ultimately - all its workers?

 

can anyone feel a recession on the way?

 

----EDIT----

 

unfortunately i missed this TV program, but from what iv heard, it agreed with a lot of my thoughts.

 

-----

 

Matt

Edited March 12, 2007 by MATT jr

[Bigjeeze]

The thing is, if 1 houshold on every street made their house self sufficient this will make no difference in the slightest when it comes to electricity, the powerstation will still burn the same amount of fuel if it is providing for 100,000 houses or 200,000 houses.

 

So If I was doing it to reduce CO2 emmisions I would be wasting my time, I am doing it to save me money, I would like to say I am eco friendly and doing my bit for the environment but I would be lying.

 

I look at the rate of increasing bills at the moment and see that the payback time will be less than originally thought.

 

I have a slight benefit though as I got a free sample water heating system from a company which I will put in my house so it pays for itself immediatly.

 

All I need now is 18 sample PV panels and I am away.

 

Can you give me an idea of how the costs breakdown and most importantly the payback period. Even with the higher yield PVs I am not sure whether or not this can cost in - being cost neutral would be a seriously tempting option but given the price of Solar PV's at the mo and their output I just can't see where you get the savings.

 

Currently my House is heated by Gas, Hot water by Gas, Gas Hob - But Showers, Oven, Fridges etc are Electric.

 

The Boiler is a new Condenser - My major appliances are all AA rated - all lightbulbs are low wattage yet I still can't get my bills below

[Gteuk]

Can you let me know what your unit usage is, I work it out at about 7000 Kwh per annum which is quite high.

 

Things to look at when trying to reduce electricity bills.

 

- Tv's are they tubed or TFTs, TFT uses considerably less between 200 - 300 watts

- Electric Lights (you have allready said they are low wattage)

- How many meals are cooked a day (a large amount of electricity)

- What wattage is your microwave, tumble dryer, hoover, kettle etc

Most people go for the highest wattage which does not do things much faster or better.

- Is your shower electric or do you use pre heated water (how many showers do you have)

 

If your combi boiler has the facility for detecting preheat water then you can use solar heated water through it, I am estimating a cost of around