Bt Is It Always Going To Be A Constant Struggle

[Gteuk]

Just thought I would throw this one in for debate,

 

Where I work we have a head office and retail outlet in the same town, head office had 3 lines going into until sept, I ordered an extra 3 lines 1 of which has been installed using a DAX system the other 2 still no sign of as a poll had to be put up then underground work now has to take place ( I know if they are doing underground work what is the need of the poll visa versa)

 

So I am still waiting on those lines all aux to an existing number,

 

We took over a retail outlet a few weeks ago and low and behold more problems, one of the numbers assigned was in use by no other than Flintshire County Council, they spent half a day looking for the line and did not once ring it, it was anly when I told them FCC answer that line they knew where it was routed to, did they reassign another number? no they disconnected FCC and routed it to our retail outlet.

 

So at the end I have phone lines and I said I am happy ;) then I said now I can finally get broadband in, in reply I got " I wouldn't like to be the engineer doing that one".

 

Don't forget I am still waiting for 2 lines in our head office since sept, at what stage will BT explode with the inability to provide numbers new or old, or even be able to find their ass from their elbow

 

Extremely unhappy chappy working off mobile connection during daytime as there is too much noise on the line for dial up

[Bigjeeze]

Without knowing the precise details I can't comment on your particular situation but I think it only fair to qualify a few points.

 

Lineplant doesn't get installed for free, it costs money - also it may be that your premises are in an area where an uplift is planned but not yet going ahead - Don't forget lineplant is a continual problem and is getting worse - Where in this digital age everyone has DSL lines - these are growing - and you find that businesses do not usually use an existing line - they want a new one for their DSL - the line plant gets used up quickly - again there is building work going on everywhere - all of these new sites require lineplant. BT spend on average

[Gteuk]

I understand where you are coming from and that ensuring capabilities are at a cost, but surely this cost is preventetive maintenance?

 

Even if they do all the donkey work and I transfer to a different provider BT still make money just at a different margin, no matter who we go with for calls BT still, and will always get their cut.

 

As for the fleets of vans and workers that is depleeting as more sub contractors are taken on, even redundant engineers are now sub contracting.

 

BT is as you say a powerful and valuable source but at the same time can be incompitent with it,

 

I have been waiting since SEPTEMBER 06 for two new lines to help with expansion of the business I am involved in.

 

I could have built a new office block in that time closer to the exchange.......

 

BT is a vital part of everyones life, except those with cable but with their profits over the last 3 years they are not the ones that are hard done by..........

[Guest Cepheus]

BT is a vital part of everyones life, except those with cable

 

Even those with cable. Virgin Media/BT telco interconnects are part of everyones daily life - try calling anyone you know with a BT number from a cable line (or vice versa) and without these in place and nowt will happen!

 

The Future of Multimedia!

 

:wacko:

[Bigjeeze]

I understand where you are coming from and that ensuring capabilities are at a cost, but surely this cost is preventetive maintenance?

 

Even if they do all the donkey work and I transfer to a different provider BT still make money just at a different margin, no matter who we go with for calls BT still, and will always get their cut.

 

"Thats true - but the profit is in calls not lineplant - Ofcom decides what we charge for lines and calls - BT don't have that option unlike every one of the competition - every single one - BT has to publish all of it's prices- not one of BT competitors has to do that"

 

As for the fleets of vans and workers that is depleeting as more sub contractors are taken on, even redundant engineers are now sub contracting. " That's how BT makes a profit - by cutting ongoing costs to reduce overheads and make a better margin - all this on a declining product return"

 

BT is as you say a powerful and valuable source but at the same time can be incompitent with it,

 

I have been waiting since SEPTEMBER 06 for two new lines to help with expansion of the business I am involved in.

 

I could have built a new office block in that time closer to the exchange....... "That may be true - but your part of the Universe is just one aspect of the 27 million customers BT has to look after - you may well be waiting a long time - but it might be because there are planning issues - despite what people think you can't just dig up the road whenever you like - you do have to have permission it takes time - Also putting wires or ducts into buildings has to have wayleaves from the Landlords - who often don't want to do it or want to charge large sums of money,- in addition thar tof BT that sels you the line - BT Retail - has then to wait on BT Openreach to install - they have no power to urge or insist - they have the same power as any other customer of Openreach whoever they are - OfCom made it that way. That's what comptetition does for you "

 

BT is a vital part of everyones life, except those with cable but with their profits over the last 3 years they are not the ones that are hard done by.......... BT's profits are nothing like they were in the heydays - profits are now a diminishing return which is why BT is investing in the 21CN -

[Gteuk]

Apparently it has been expediated to level 3 personel, What I do find funny is their compensation policy says the will pay a maximum of 120 for loss of earning, we are paying a lot more than that to the staff that cannot answer the phone. I even find it difficult calling my own office.

 

Because a company is large and it eats into their margins to install these lines does not constitute an excuse to haulting business. It is not the fact that the delay has took place it is the way it has took place.

 

"Your lines will be installed on the 15th November sir"

"We need a new poll the lines will be ready to use on 27th November sir"

"We have too little capacity at the exchange sir this will be resolved by 1st December"

"We need to dig up the road sir this should be done by 14th December sir"

"You have 4 lines at the moment sir we will add a DAX on one of them by 20th December"

This was actually done

I asked the engineer why this can't be done on the other 2 lines, he said "it can"

"We cannot fit a DAX on the other 2 lines sir" I ask for reason " I don't know but I will find"

Still waiting for that answer

"We have encountered another problem and need to dig we do not have a date for this yet"

Complain, complain, complain,

"Your lines will be active on 16th February sir"

Lets wait and see what tomorrow brings

 

The question is should they not know what capacity an exchange has got, surely over the years the have been running they have some idea of what expected growth there is on an exchange, aswell as deterioration of infrastucture and when it should be renewed. Is this not basic stock control?

 

The fact that it eats into the profits does not come into it, they ARE making a profit and even if it was to run at breakeven then its doing better than most companies in todays market except BT would get a massive rescue package from the government. By not providing the service they are eating into my profits.

 

How I wish calls to mobiles were the same as landlines, I would buy a bucket load and get rid of the land lines.

 

It will be interesting to see how long it will be before we are completely mobile.

[Bigjeeze]

Apparently it has been expediated to level 3 personel, What I do find funny is their compensation policy says the will pay a maximum of 120 for loss of earning, we are paying a lot more than that to the staff that cannot answer the phone. I even find it difficult calling my own office.

 

Consequential loss is for failed sevice - not for failing to provide. You cannot claim for a loss that doesn't exist - until the extra lines are in you cannot say what you will make or lose.

 

Because a company is large and it eats into their margins to install these lines does not constitute an excuse to haulting business. It is not the fact that the delay has took place it is the way it has took place.

 

"Your lines will be installed on the 15th November sir"

"We need a new poll the lines will be ready to use on 27th November sir"

"We have too little capacity at the exchange sir this will be resolved by 1st December"

"We need to dig up the road sir this should be done by 14th December sir"

"You have 4 lines at the moment sir we will add a DAX on one of them by 20th December"

This was actually done

I asked the engineer why this can't be done on the other 2 lines, he said "it can"

"We cannot fit a DAX on the other 2 lines sir" I ask for reason " I don't know but I will find"

Still waiting for that answer

"We have encountered another problem and need to dig we do not have a date for this yet"

Complain, complain, complain,

"Your lines will be active on 16th February sir"

Lets wait and see what tomorrow brings

 

The question is should they not know what capacity an exchange has got, surely over the years the have been running they have some idea of what expected growth there is on an exchange, aswell as deterioration of infrastucture and when it should be renewed. Is this not basic stock control?

 

Exchanges were reducing in capacity up until the ADSL boom - now that means that capacity is growing. Cables can be in use up to 30 or 40 years - what cannot be predicted or managed easily is the huge growth in building and expansion of non central sites - for instance 10 years ago any new expansion was usually on an industrial estate - today everyone is running businesses from all sorts of sites - If you have a housing area that was built with 600 house in it you don't cable for more than 1800 pairs - that gives you one service to each house with 2 spares for maintenance - now that houses are being converted into flats, houses are being knocked down and 10 or more flats built in the same space makes it even harder to keep up with cable requirements. Don't forget - the cable goes from your premises all the way back to the exchange which can be as much as 10km or more - thats a lot of cables a lot of ducts and a lot of potential digging - not to mention the disruption that causes.

The fact that it eats into the profits does not come into it, they ARE making a profit and even if it was to run at breakeven then its doing better than most companies in todays market except BT would get a massive rescue package from the government. By not providing the service they are eating into my profits.

 

Of course profit comes into it!!! Why do you imagine that BT shouldn't be concerned with profit? What does your business operate on ? is it a charity? I rather think not. Everyone and that includes you and BT wants a return on investment - no one does it for free - there is no such thing as a free lunch (get the message?) Breakeven doesn't work - tell it to the city - margin is everything - if you don't make a reasonable return you can't afford to invest - if you can't invest you can't grow. It's just a question scale. Oh and the Government wouldn't help BT - well at least it hasn't up to now - which is why all those foreign telco's are making so much money in the UK - and by the way they also use these operators instead of BT - BT's Government revenues are falling every year.

How I wish calls to mobiles were the same as landlines, I would buy a bucket load and get rid of the land lines.

 

This is a good point - tell it to the mobile operators - Calls are where the profit is in telecomms - but the margins or calls to mobiles are the thinnest of all - The Mobile operators get the bulk - around 60% of the cost you pay goes to them - BT has to cover it's costs and try to make a profit form the remainder - and it ain't much.

It will be interesting to see how long it will be before we are completely mobile.

 

BT is aiming for a large mobile population - Once the 21Cn is in place the expansion of WiFi will explode - BT is bringing out handsets that use landlines (cos they're cheaper ) when you are on your sites or in a wifi zone and use the Mobile network when out and about - Once the Wifi is installed and properly integrated around the UK it will be mostly mobile.

 

One last point - those nasty profiteering people you dislike - they would also be all the alternative providers - none of whom want to invest in the local loop but just want to cream the profits off the top by letting BT suffer the agro of installing and maintaining the local loop. Ask C&W, Thus, Energis , COlt or any of the other 280 odd providers of Telephony services in the UK to give you service - NONE of them want to pay to install your half a dozen lines because there is bugger all money in it!! BT has a universal servcie obligation - not a death wish!!

[Gteuk]

You seem upset by my whinging :( , by chance do you or have you worked for BT, if so they need more like you, to get the jobs done, BTW my dead line has expired and still no new lines :(

[Gteuk]

Of course profit comes into it!!! Why do you imagine that BT shouldn't be concerned with profit? What does your business operate on ? is it a charity? I rather think not. Everyone and that includes you and BT wants a return on investment - no one does it for free - there is no such thing as a free lunch (get the message?) Breakeven doesn't work - tell it to the city - margin is everything - if you don't make a reasonable return you can't afford to invest - if you can't invest you can't grow. It's just a question scale. Oh and the Government wouldn't help BT - well at least it hasn't up to now - which is why all those foreign telco's are making so much money in the UK - and by the way they also use these operators instead of BT - BT's Government revenues are falling every year.

 

Profit always comes into it GP and NP are not the same though if they are at a loss at GP then there is a serious issue, the fact remains is BT as an institute that do hold the whole of the UK's economy in their hands have an obligation to carry out its duty, if they are underfunded or under manned then it is their duty to tell the boys upstairs who will in turn speak to the government for a little hand out.

 

If the government hand out money to the silly things in life e.g. Dome, then surely no matter what happens BT is safe, don't know what BT's profits where but I bet they are in double figures of millions, bloody shareholders :(

[El Dingo]

... Just cancelled my last BT line.

 

It's a relief. How can they justify charging a 'late payment charge' at 29 days after the bill has been posted? Most businesses that I deal with work on between 30 and 60 days.

 

Anyway, I'm now mostly on-line or mobile. And my NTL (Virgin) deal is cheaper than BT. I just hope that I never have to call their customer service, which is legendary! :(

Edited February 17, 2007 by El Dingo