Anyone Know Of "electrical Issue's"

[littledaz]

Nothing significant then? I take it the 'misfire' was apparent when viewing MVBs?

 

When you say "a tad higher" on cyl 4 in MVB 13, what was the maximum value you witnessed. Even if the value doesn't exceed the parameters, you could still have an issue. I had an A3 2.0TDI earlier this week that would hardly run but, still ran within the parameters. It's quite a large window of adjustment. A small deviation may be a slight misfire compared to an engine running on 3 cylinders when the value is at its extreme.

 

All zeros in MVB 18 shows that, as far as the ecu is concerned, the solenoid valves on the injectors are OK. If one goes faulty, you usually see a value of 128 on the offending cylinder and a fault code.

 

As I said in my previous post, I am not too concerned about MVB 23 as I am not sure it is utilised by our ecus for injector duration but, I do intend to find out what it is 'cos I am curious as to why it used in some and not others.

 

A quick chat with said VW indicates they know of an electrical issue with the injectors

 

I have done some digging and have found that VW are aware of an issue with the injector wiring loom in the cylinder head that can create resistance issues with the injectors. Also other issues with the injector sealing rings were mentioned. This requires a resistance check of the injectors at the cylinder head electrical socket and pressure checks of the fuel system. If this was your issue, I would have expected it to show in the MVBs or as a fault. Might be the beginning of the issue, depends on how severe your 'misfire' is.

 

I didn't realise your VagCom man charged you, shame you are not coming this way, I could've plugged mine in for you.

 

Just out of interest and if you don't mind me asking, how many miles has your Galaxy covered (might help in diagnosis)?

A new fuel filter filled with Forte Diesel Conditioner or similar may help if you have an injector not spraying cleanly.

 

I know this is a lot of info in one hit but, without roadtesting your Galaxy and getting a feel for the issue, it is an odd one.

 

Hope this helps :)

[Dave-G]

TBH - I cant recall how much higher the values in MVB 13 were.

 

I'll stay with the plan to let them test drive the car tomorrow, and maybe change the filter later in the week. Cant risk tearing open the wound in my hand just yet - nor any contact with diesel.

 

Car has nearly 22k on the clock - cost

[Dave-G]

Well a guy at the VW specialist confirms your theory about the loom in the rocker cover LD - but suggests that its in its early stages, and too soon to produce fault codes.

 

Leaving it to develop - at least till I get the service book stamped - or the other warranty documentation, may lead to a more accurate diagnosis without taking things to bits.

[littledaz]

I take it you have no desire to tackle the replacement yourself Dave-G? Can you live with the issue until your warranty becomes "live" again?

 

The loom is approx

[Guest wolfie]

Well a guy at the VW specialist confirms your theory about the loom in the rocker cover LD - but suggests that its in its early stages, and too soon to produce fault codes.

 

Leaving it to develop - at least till I get the service book stamped - or the other warranty documentation, may lead to a more accurate diagnosis without taking things to bits.

 

 

on Jan 19 2007, at 15:53:30 the above possible fault was suggested ;) only four days to get round to the believing first reply ;)

[littledaz]

Wolfie,

 

even I was doubtful about the possibilities suggested in that post and I work on these engines every day!

 

possible needle lift sensor?

not utilised on PD engines.

 

or dodgy injector loom wiring/connection?

 

this wiring loom is used on all the Audi/VW/Seat/Ford 1.9PD engines and has the same part number. I've worked on Audi PD engines since 1999 and never had a loom fail. It is not a known issue with Audi but, is with VW, bizarre or what? ;)

Perhaps the VW engineers abuse them before fitment ;)

 

Live & learn heh? ;)

[Dave-G]

I take it you have no desire to tackle the replacement yourself Dave-G? Can you live with the issue until your warranty becomes "live" again?

 

The loom is approx

[littledaz]

The loom is just plugged in........well sort of. Its main connnector protrudes from the cylinder head and there are then four 2-pin connectors for the injectors beneath the cam cover. The cam cover requires removal and providing there is no damage to the rubber gasket, it can be reused. The connectors for the injectors just pull off (quite tight) and then disconnect the main connector via the twist-lock connection. The loom is then unbolted and withdrawn from the head.

 

 

 

 

 

There is a resistance test that you can carry out to check your wiring loom and confirm the diagnosis. I can post this when & if your willing to do this.

[Dave-G]

Yikes - this is could turn into one of the "how to" items in the FAQ's if your keen to post the details of the resistance test Daz. Those are very good photos - If you took the cover off especially for me I'm going to feel a bit guilty about the following.

 

I had two envelopes of good news today.

 

First was the service book with two stamps reading: "HERTZ - SERVICED TO MANUFACTURERS SCHEDULE MAINTENANCE" So it could be that ford will accept the servicing of one of their major fleet buyers is agreeable to satisfty warranty conditions.

 

Second contained the two years Car Care Plan warranty documentation - spoilt for choice now. At the moment it's still only a niggling distraction but when it deteriorates I'm thinking I'd get the loom done at VW if they work with Car Care, given it's a VW engine.

[Guest yzfr1boy]

we had a tdi at work with a misfire it turned out to be the dual mass flywheel nackered we fitted 1 and new clutch was spot on after that,so ive heard there common failure

[littledaz]

yzfr1boy,

 

I would normally agree with you as I have experienced that also but, Dave-G's Galaxy is an Automatic which rules that theory out.

 

Dave-G,

 

does your warranty cover "electrical failures" i.e. wiring issues? Some don't. I will get round to posting the test. It is a little long-winded.

 

BTW, I didn't strip my Galaxy down to take the photos, I'm not that keen! :lol: Hope you don't feel too guilty now. The first pic is from my Galaxy and the other two showing the loom are from a head we had removed at work.

Edited January 26, 2007 by littledaz

[Dave-G]

yzfr1boy,

 

welcome to the forum, I would normally agree with you but, Dave-G's Galaxy is an Automatic which rules that theory out.

 

Dave-G,

 

does your warranty cover "electrical failures" i.e. wiring issues? Some don't. I will get round to posting the test. It is a little long-winded.

 

BTW, I didn't strip my Galaxy down to take the photos, I'm not that keen! Hope you don't feel too guilty now. The first pic is from my Galaxy and the other two showing the loom are from a head we had removed at work.

 

HMM LD... There seems to be a little mention of wiring looms in the "not covered" section. Still intending to allow it to develop a little more first while my hand gets better at least.

[littledaz]

OK Dave-G.

 

Hope the hand gets better soon. Gives me a little time to put the test instructions together. I'll have to look at wiring diagrams to make sure you check the right pins for resistance.

 

I remember reading that your misfire happens at idle is that in P, D or N or does it not matter?

[Dave-G]

Thanks Ld - occurs in P D and N - and whenever I'm driving sedately - as befits my 55 years :)

 

I have a very old multimeter.

 

Interestingly and out of sheer boredom yesterday in stand still traffic I upped my throttle in "n" to 1000 RPM for a while and noted that when it occurs the RPM initially "fades" then recovers - perhaps as a result of some anti stall device. It sometimes then sort of blips about 100 RPM as if I was very slighly pumping the throttle. Again - possibly some kind of antistall device briefly correcting... HMM

Edited January 27, 2007 by Dave-G

[scrote]

Hi

 

Had a misfire on my Bus (PD 115 manual) and eventually traced it to a poor connection to an injector - I took the rocker/injector cover off and disconnected, cleaned and ensured there was a good contact on all the terminals to the injectors. I also took apart the round connector on the side of the cylinder head and did the same with that. I dont know which one was at fault but it was over 2000 miles ago now and have had no probs since.

 

Scrote

[Dave-G]

Thanks Scrote - OMG I dont believe I just said that :16: well it does actually appeal to the mischief in me...*more of later* I'll keep that in mind as I dabble.

 

Now the fuel system is pressurised right? - So I goes out and drains the filter with my good hand (the right one) and the fuel trickles out. After it stops I put the plug back in and restart the car. No change. Just realised I should have drained it just after I stop the engine maybe? It's been standing overnight and today. Maybe it's lost it's pressure?

 

 

*More of... You'll love this

 

When I tried several times to get an ebay "name" I eventually gave up after some 25~30 attempts and spitefully wrote bolluxthen which got denied too. I then gave up and as I was closing the enrolment page down I got a message that bolluxthen was accepted.

 

So I starts trading RC helicopter upgrades I have left over from a business I gave up on and got a message from one of my customers that he thought I was being very rude. Unknown to me the very last word that ebay adds to a sale message to a buyer is the sellers name. He sent me a copy of his sale confirmation that read something like "Thank you for buying this product. Bolluxthen"

 

I subsequently managed to modify it with a "0" to read "Bolluxthen0" instead. :16:

Edited January 28, 2007 by Dave-G

[littledaz]

Now the fuel system is pressurised right?.........Just realised I should have drained it just after I stop the engine maybe?.............Maybe it's lost it's pressure?

Me again Dave-G!

 

The system is not under pressure when the engine is switched off, so, draining immediately after switch off or leaving overnight would make no difference. The tandem pump, on the back of the head, sucks the fuel through the filter, builds the pressure in its housing to approx 10 bar and feeds the injectors with this, then the injection pressure of upto 2050 bar is created by the PD injectors. After switch off the pressure in the tandem pump bleeds off back to the tank via the return lines. The only benefit of draining the fuel filter is to drain off water as this collects at the bottom of the filter.

[Dave-G]

Ah - Thanks again LD

[littledaz]

This is how to test the PD injector wiring loom in the cylinder head when experiencing misfires.

 

You may also experience the following fault codes:

 

18074 - 18077 valve for pump injector cylinder 1 - 4 electric fault in circuit

16685 - 16688 cylinder 1 - 4 misfiring recognised

 

The test requires the cam cover to be removed for overall assessment although you can preliminary check to see if the resistance values are out by going straight to the electrical plug.

 

 

1. Unscrew wiring connector on right side of cyl head (release lock pin first)

 

2. Using multimeter on ohms (200ohms setting - may vary on different multimeters) and test the appropriate pins

3. Connect black probe to pin 7 (injector common earth) and then use red probe to test remaining pins in turn.

There are 4 remaining pins; these are individually wired to each injector.

 

4. When checking the resistance, the value should be within 0.1ohms to 1.5ohms and all injectors must be about the same value. I tested this one today and found each one at 0.5ohms.

5. This is where the cam cover removal is needed.

 

6. Do not disconnect injector 2 pin connectors as the test checks the solenoid valves aswell.

7. Whilst checking the resistance, move the wiring loom and 2 pin connectors to see if the value changes.

8. If the values change with the movement - replace the loom. (Instructions below)

9. If the values don't change but are out of spec, disconnect the connectors at the injectors and test the injector solenoid valves. If the values are equal on each injector, replace the loom.

 

 

Replacing the loom

 

Undo the two 10mm bolts from main connector

 

 

 

Unplug the 2 pin injector connectors and clip into loom casing.

Slide out loom and squeeze steel clips to enable it to slide out freely.

 

Edited January 29, 2007 by littledaz

[Dave-G]

Good job you don't live near me Ld - I'd have to do a sort of man hug thing for that :unsure:

 

I'll be doing that prelimary check tomorrow afternoon my ansome :wacko:

 

Mods - can we pin this in the FAQ's please?

 

I've been down to Maplins and bought a new multimeter for this job today

Edited January 29, 2007 by Dave-G

[littledaz]

Will be interested to see what readings you've got.

 

In the mean-time though, can you answer some questions for me?

 

Does the 'misfire' feel like it is dropping a cylinder for a couple of revolutions or is it just a 'blip'?

 

You said the rpm drops by 100rpm (quite a lot IMO), does it lack power at this point?

 

Does it happen at a particular engine temperature?

 

Have you tried switching off & on consumers, i.e. aircon, HRW, HFW to see if this affects it?

 

Do you experience any smoke?

 

Is there anything else, other than what you've already mentioned, that can change the characteristics of the 'misfire'?

 

BTW, there is no anti-stall device, as such. My 6-speed manual stalls very easily if the revs aren't high enough! The ecu controls the rpm, if it drops below or rises above its threshold it will try to bring it back to idle. I am trying to cover all possibilities (i.e. fuel presure, egr), in view of the fact it is not a prominent misfire causing a fault code and it is only noticeable at idle & light throttle.

 

Sorry for all the questions but this is bugging me now? I think a VagCom plug-in by me is 'looming'.......'scuse the pun :unsure:

[Guest Cepheus]

Mods - can we pin this in the FAQ's please?

 

Added to FAQ :unsure:

[NikpV]

Mods - can we pin this in the FAQ's please?

 

Added to FAQ :wacko:

 

 

twice now - 2 from bottom and 4 from bottom :unsure: :16: :(

[Dave-G]

LD - Just before I did the check I ran the engine to get some of those answers (in case I broke something)

 

Problem seems to be at it's worst about 1500rpm in neutral - which seems probably about the same in drive. If I run it at 1500 it can die about 200rpm then surge back to 1500.. That can take about 2 seconds to occur - and it repeats itself frequently at those intervals - but not all the time. I have tried this with various electrics on and off with no difference.

 

Well the prelimary result can be seen in this photo. All termials read 00.7. I had to release the socket from the head to see into it - the plastic battery compartment surround renders a clean view impossible. That action will have disturbed the loom - and I have anyway rotated it 180 degrees on refitting in the hope that it makes a possible poor connection better.

 

I am now going out to complete the reassembly of the intercooler? pipework etc

Edited January 30, 2007 by Dave-G

[Dave-G]

Well LD, a quick run around a 3 mile block and it initially seems less frequent and less noticeable. I feel inclined to leave it for a few days to get confirmation of that.

 

I forgot to add that when stone cold - in last weeks freezing weather - the exhaust produced substantial white smoke at startup. I also noticed it (less obvious) occasionally during the 'miss-fires