Tdi Wont Start

[Hank]

Hi everyone hoping someone can help please ...

 

Had my Galaxy for 2 years now with only an aircon problem (who hasn't?) It has 130,000 on the clock & the cam belt was done (by my local garage) when I bought it

 

It has been starting straight away every morning without any problems until last week ... first sign I had of any problem was when it took a little longer to actually start so I changed the glow plugs - did not make any difference - once it started it was fine for the rest of the day & runs very smoothly

 

I changed the water temp sensor & the glow plug relay but that did not make any difference - the engine fires but will not run nor will it respond to the throttle - its as if the throttle is disconnected

 

I have changed the throttle position sensor (complete throttle pedal assy on mine) still no difference ...

 

What happens now is that the engine will fire & run lumpy for 2-3 seconds then cuts out - depressing the throttle makes no difference

 

I get clouds of white smoke with a strong smell of diesel out of the back of the exhaust when trying to start

 

I had a full service in July this year & the cam belt was renewed when I bought the car 2 years ago (it has done about 12,000 miles)

 

After searching through this forum I am now thinking it might be the crankshaft sensor - can this be easily tested in-situ?

 

Any help will be greatly appreciated ;)

[Smilge]

IIRC I had a similar problem with the timing on a Montego once Hank .... I ended up getting an oscilloscope from work and using a sharp pointed probe. Once I found where the o/p from the crank sensor went to, I probed the pin and turned the engine over. Should have got a nice square wave but got zilch. Might be an easier way on the Gal ..... VAG COM gents?

[NikpV]

try with a spare key to rule out immobiliser problems - (what does the door led do~) - think its unllikly but a quick cheap/check.

 

(Pump) timing slipped a tooth is enough I'm told ;)

[bigdaddy]

Check there is a live feed to the glow plugs

[anadin]

what year/age is it ?

[NikpV]

what year/age is it ?

I must be slipping - :16: ;)

[anadin]

what year/age is it ?

I must be slipping - :D :D

 

i happens nik ;) with AGE ! ;) :16: :16:

[Hank]

Sorry forgot to add age to my signature - updated now - the model is still there ;)

 

Talking of checking live feed to the glow plugs - I previously checked fuse 32 & it was missing?!! Fitting a new fuse didnt help :16:

 

Also disconnected the maff - no difference

 

Checked rear brake lights they are fine

 

Did notice the relay seems to shut off quick - I have been taking the cover off the relay to manually operate it for longer ... seems to help to get it to fire but lumpy running for about 2 - 3 secs then stops - just find it puzzling that depressing the pedal makes no difference as if it is disconnected :16:

 

If the imobiliser is playing up would it fire at all? Will check what the door light does

 

Thanks for your help and suggestions everyone

[NikpV]

If the imobiliser is playing up would it fire at all? Will check what the door light does

 

yes on a tdi thats how it does it

[bigdaddy]

What happens now is that the engine will fire & run lumpy for 2-3 seconds then cuts out - depressing the throttle makes no difference

 

Have you recently changed the batteries in your remote key,,,,,,,,sounds like you have a missing chip in the key for the imobiliser or the imobiliser is faulty,,,,,,,,,do you have a spare key try that

 

 

 

 

It has been starting straight away every morning without any problems until last week ... first sign I had of any problem was when it took a little longer to actually start so I changed the glow plugs - did not make any difference - once it started it was fine for the rest of the day & runs very smoothly

 

Though I still think you should check the live feed to the glow plugs

Edited November 9, 2006 by bigdaddy

[anadin]

after the electrical test check the clear pipe/fuel line , make sure theres no air in the system

[shepheap]

Fuel pump?

[Hank]

Just an update ...

 

Bigdaddy & NikpV - thanks for the suggestions ... I havent changed the battery in my remote & tried my spare key - no diffence - door led comes on then goes out as usual ... will have to look into how to check the pump timing - is that something I could do? Out of interest when I bought the car it had 1 spare key - no remote key - bought a remote key off Ebay & a mobile auto-key engineer tried to program it using a gismo plugged into the socket under the ash tray - said he had some problem doing it so he took the chip out of 1 of the keys & fitted it into the new remote key fob - this has worked fine no problem for nearly 2 years - the key without the programmed chip will still operate the doors but if I try to use it to start the car nothing happens ... does not even turn the engine over which is why I think the immobiliser must be working as I can crank the engine & it does run albeit for only 2-3 secs ... :blink:

 

Haynes manual shows a way of testing the crankshaft positon sensor by measuring ohms resistance across 2 of the terminals apparently should read 1000 - 1500 ohms - if my tester is accurate then mine reads 1094ohms ...

 

shepheap & anadin - thanks for your suggestion about fuel - there is movement of fuel in the clear pipe, no apparent air bubbles etc & still getting clouds of white smoke out of the exhaust which seems to indicate unburnt fuel ...

 

Thanks for all the suggestions

[Smilge]

Hank you could try the TDi.com website to give you further ideas

 

http://www.tdiclub.com/

[seatkid]

No fuel pump on 97 Tdi (its part of the distributor)

 

It sounds as if the Camshaft pulley has slipped from its correct position - the bolt may not have been tightened correctly at the cambelt change.

 

No possibilty you filled it with petrol?

[Hank]

Thanks for the link Bleeno - had 1 reply there suggesting pump timing has slipped ...

 

I am certain I filled with diesel not petrol Seatkid as I filled up the week before when the tank was very low & the car was running fine uptil last week ...

 

Can the timing be checked without a lot of dismantling?

 

I am getting confused here as this is my first diesel car ... is pump timing different to cam timing?

Am I right thinking I need special tools to check & adjust pump timing?

 

Sorry about all the questions ... as I say this is my first diesel car so keen to learn more about it

[seatkid]

Try a search on cambelt change (make sure its refering to the Mk1 model) and you will find the procedure for setting the timing. Its on the TIS CD. You have to strip off the covers, and the rocker box cover. You set the engine at TDC. There is a flat at the (small) end of the camshaft, which should line up with a flat on the head - you should be able to insert a feeler gauge here if its right. Both the cam and pump timing are adjusted by loosening the sprocket, adjusting and tightening up.

 

Unless you know what you're doing, its a job best left to an expert.

[Brookydave]

On a diesel the diesel pump timing is far more critical than the cam timing. Pump timing is altered electronically on a Mk1, but only once the engine is running. For good cold starting accurate diesel pump timing is essential. The hardest part will be finding TDC. I find it easiest to remove glowplug No 1, and put a tig rod or something thin down the hole to roughly determine tdc, then look for the flywheel mark. Its on the real flywheel, and is very difficult to find, needing the battery removed or a small remote camera etc to look thriough the inspection hole.

Set engine to TDC and you should be able to push a snap-on 11mm long series socket!! into the diesel pump alignment holes. The cam timing is set using a 3mm brass rod filed to width and feelers on each side of the head. Refer to the TIS cd. I got my Galaxy really cheap on Ebay because a garage couldnt sort the starting issue. Turned out to be a loose crank pulley (thanks TDIclub.com), which is not keyed on the Mk1s!!! You can tell if its a bottom pulley, as both your cam timing and diesel pump timing will be the same distance out (in my experience they stop starting at 2 teeth out) the valves do not kiss at this. Buy a new pulley and some green loctite andyou are away.

There is nothing difficult about diesels - even a fuel pump rebuild is do-able and the faults are blindingy obvious, once inside - its just myths because not many people have been there.

Good luck. :rolleyes:

Dave

[Hank]

Many thanks for your replies Seatkid & Brookydave

 

I agree with your comment about diesels - having been brought up on petrol engined Vivas, Escorts & Granadas (god I am showing my age here! :rolleyes: ) I am just starting to get into the diesel world - once you have done a certain job you know what to expect - its just making that first move ...

 

Having searched through this excellent forum I have decided to invest in a Vag-Com as it will save me money in the long-run - just a quick question ... they list two types the Key-USB & the Hex-Key USB (CAN) - am I right in thinking the CAN version is for the later mk II Galaxy? If I get the CAN version I assume it will work with my mk I ?

Sorry for all the questions ... just trying to get it right first time

 

Thanks again for all your help - will keep you updated

[Brookydave]

you have pm

[Hank]

Hi everyone just an update ... finally got the car to the local garage that fitted the cambelt 15 months ago ... just heard from them tonight that it is low on compression :angry2:

 

Does this sound feasible? Even the mechanic said she runs like a dream when she does actually start & starts first time when warm ... (kept in a warm workshop it apparently started readily ... with a bit of help of some Easystart I suspect)

 

Meeting the mechanic tomorrow so will have more details

[Chris Jones]

I once had a passat that used to a fantastic starter then one morning it just didnt wont to know. The fault was traced back to a heater plug master fuse which can be found on the galaxy just in front of the battery (i think will check later) worth a look as it will be obvious if it has blown. Yep its there. lol

[Hank]

Thanks for the info Chris - will definitely check the fuse ... the car is at the garage but will either get over there to check it myself or get the mechanic to check it ...

 

Thanks Chris

[Jaroth]

Hi

I know this may sound silly,but how low do you let the tank get before you refill it.....water slowly accumulates in the bottom of the tank if you fill up early....white smoke is an indication of water in the fuel.....it gets sucked in and trapped in the filter

[Hank]

Thanks for the tip Jaroth ... I usually put about