Veils...... Closed by Glen exhausted subject

[gregers]

when we become the minority and no doubt its coming will the majority bend over backwards for us mmmmm.........NO

[Guest seacam]

when we become the minority and no doubt its coming will the majority bend over backwards for us mmmmm.........NO

 

Hello Gregers,

 

What do you mean when you write "minority"?

[Guest Gurugal]

Seacam - you seem to think it's a simple problem and a simple solution - you imply that all is really well and that just by wishing it will stay that way.

 

You should attempt to understand peoples fears. People are generally not interested in immigration or population make up until someone points to it or in some other way highlights a situation.

 

Currently we have the issues with Islamic radicals that are being exagerated by the media and that is what is driving the unease about "immigrants". If the media were to let this subject die - it would.

 

That said it is becoming increasingly clear that this government is ignoring a growing problem. We have a varied mix of people and "cultures" in this country but the government seems to favour one over the so called indigenous population - and coupled with the ludricous PC system, we are generating more disquiet and unease. Add to this mixture the posturing and parading by a very few militant Muslims and you arrive at the current state of affairs.

 

The simplest solution is to say that whomsoever is in this country now is British - new immigrants must then be regulated as to numbers and access to benefits and housing. Remove the apartheid that exists with these extreme religious sects and enforce integration - after all we have enforced acceptance over thelast decades.

 

Then lastly and probably most contentiously we need to regulate the media - they and they alone are responsbile for this whole mess - the problem will be how to do this without compromising free speech. Free speech shouldn't grant the media the right to cause the problems they do.

[Smilge]

My attitude to Muslim women wearing veils ? ...... It doesn't matter ..... there are more pressing issues to worry about such as, how on earth are my children going to be able to afford to buy their own house at current prices? I'm seriously considering taking on a second mortgage for them .... I shouldn't have to do that!

[Guest Gurugal]

My attitude to Muslim women wearing veils ? ...... It doesn't matter ..... there are more pressing issues to worry about such as, how on earth are my children going to be able to afford to buy their own house at current prices? I'm seriously considering taking on a second mortgage for them .... I shouldn't have to do that!

 

 

Ask that nice Lady Thatcher how - She was the one who completely changed how we live and whether or not we bought or rented our homes. When I grew up most people didn't own their own home - they either rented privately or via the local council - But, those that did own their own homes usually didn't get to own them until they were either in their late twenties or early thirties or even later.

 

Why does everybody seem to think all kids should be able to afford their own house at 19 or 20?

 

Don't take out a second mortgage - extend your current house and let them live with you - That way no w***er is going to knock down all the nice houses where you live and replace family homes with bloody luxury flats your kids or you can't afford.

 

Not that I'm bothered of course. :(

[anadin]

it seems you have to be a single mother or an immigrant to get a council house at the mo

[Guest MATT jr]

they also give them free galaxies

 

MJR

[Guest Gurugal]

Ooh golly gosh , me being a dark skinned pregnant lesbian paraplegic means I jump all the queues!!

 

 

Don't forget - "immigrants" from all of the EU states inc

Ireland,France,Belgium,Germany,Spain,Italy,Holland,Luxembourg,Sweden,Norway,Finland,Estonia,Croatia,Poland etc etc etc are all able to obtain council housing here as well as full benefits and medical health - It isn't just the dark ones!!!

[Guest MATT jr]

welll,,, i cant say i like the french or italian!

 

MJR

[NikNak]

Hi seacam,

 

 

mmmmhh, i think you may be right, maybe i still dont 'fully' understand what my young friend was trying to tell me....... but i'd like to think that i understand what he was trying to say given that we were both only 13 or 14 at the time..... bear in mind that decimalization had just come in, and the micro-chip had not been invented then (dont know what thats got to do with it....... but it sort of sounds nostalgic..!).

 

Please dont get me wrong...... there's no way i'm what you could call a racist, in fact one of my best friends is a Hindu. But even she will admit to using her religion and colour to her advantage, she told me about the time she started to cry and sob in the local council offices because she said that she was being racially disscriminated. They caved in within minutes and gave her a 4 bedroom council house......... she got back in her car and drove of smilling. I'm sure that if i was to try and pull the same stunt..... they'd have called security, and i'd have gone to the bottom of the waiting list.

 

Anyway, that's all i want to say except to say i'm not racist...... but, i does annoy me when i see others blatantly using their religion/cult to bypass the system or 'jump the queue' or to 'point-the-finger' and say.......... etc, etc, etc,

 

Nick

 

 

p.s. at the moment i'm trying to get my mother to remember who and where my relatives come from on her side (she's got early stages of alzheimer's), and at the moment i know i'm 25% Dutch South African, 25% Spanish, 25% Sweedish and 25% English......... or so she tells me :(

[Smilge]

 

 

p.s. at the moment i'm trying to get my mother to remember who and where my relatives come from on her side (she's got early stages of alzheimer's), and at the moment i know i'm 25% Dutch South African, 25% Spanish, 25% Sweedish and 25% English......... or so she tells me :(

 

So you think you have 4 mothers with ...what was it called? :)

[Guest MATT jr]

sum1 i know (muslim) beat sum1 up, then claimed the lad he beat up, was "dissing his religion" which is complete crap.

 

disgusting!

 

MJR

[anadin]

 

 

p.s. at the moment i'm trying to get my mother to remember who and where my relatives come from on her side (she's got early stages of alzheimer's), and at the moment i know i'm 25% Dutch South African, 25% Spanish, 25% Sweedish and 25% English......... or so she tells me :(

 

So you think you have 4 mothers with ...what was it called? :)

 

 

try before you buy :) :) bless her

[NikpV]

sum1 i know (muslim) beat sum1 up, then claimed the lad he beat up, was "dissing his religion" which is complete crap.

 

disgusting!

 

MJR

 

 

isn't that the excuse the catholic church used to beat up galileo :(

[familyman]

Religion is just another form of social control

[NikpV]

Religion is just another form of social control

could read 'oppression'

[familyman]

all organised religion has a lot to answer for

[Guest seacam]

Hello Gurugal,

 

Seacam - you seem to think it's a simple problem and a simple solution - you imply that all is really well and that just by wishing it will stay that way.

 

I've never implied anything of the sorts, as for wishing, how have you come to that conclusion?

 

You should attempt to understand people's fears.

 

I think I try only to well understand people's fears, real or imagined, a lot of it I believe is based on ignorance made up from what they read.

 

People are generally not interested in immigration or population make up until someone points to it or in some other way highlights a situation.

Currently we have the issues with Islamic radicals that are being exaggerated by the media and that is what is driving the unease about "immigrants". If the media were to let this subject die - it would.

 

I don't think all the issues with Islamic radicals is being exaggerated, what I think is the media don't try hard enough to differentiate thus' educating the public, why, because their jobs and commercial interest come first.

 

That said it is becoming increasingly clear that this government is ignoring a growing problem. We have a varied mix of people and "cultures" in this country but the government seems to favour one over the so called indigenous population

 

I'm not sure we have an indigenous population anymore, however that aside, I believe the government is not ignoring the problem, it finds itself in a situation it can do little about at the moment and as much as I dislike Blaire's politics and those of his cronies, I have some sympathy for him, inso much as the problems we face now, it's seeds were first sowed 20 odd years ago, when we and the Americans were selling arms and training future terrorists thus' opening the gates to radicalism in the future.

 

and coupled with the lubricious PC system, we are generating more disquiet and unease. Add to this mixture the posturing and parading by a very few militant Muslims and you arrive at the current state of affairs.

 

I agree, it is a minority of militant Muslims but they have a voice that is falling upon disenchanted young Muslims across the world and yes we do have a ridiculous PC culture.

 

Those Muslims that could make a difference, could have a calming affect, don't speak out enough, if at all.

 

However, we also have our own home grown militant groups, by that I mean, this country, as I see it now has four opposing groups of people, we have this government who has done so much to feed disharmony to serve their own needs, to name one, ID cards.

 

You have the police and believe me there are radicals within that organisation who would like nothing better then for us to live in a police state. The unmistakable entrenchment, this them and us attitude.

 

Then the media, while we must always demand and secure a free press, they behave so irresponsibly and so often, so many lies and half truths we rely on them and yet are constantly screwed by them, take the case of Aishah Azmi, the Veil woman.

 

As I have stated in another post on this thread this woman allowed herself to be used with her full knowledge.

 

The press knew what was going on, theirs and her agenda and those of others Muslims around her was to cause disquiet, she was asked to remove her niqab when teaching as she knew she would be and refused stating religious beliefs, this was calculating and in affect brought her own faith into disrespect without the aid of anyone else.

 

The press then rattled the public because they need to sell papers instead of reporting it for the ruse they knew it was, halfway through Azmi slammed on the brakes, she became reasonable, I understand she says, " I will remove my niquab but put it on when a male teacher enters the room, ok that's reasonable but unfortunately we had been sold a line by the press, our indignation was fired on misinformation and lies and there was no stopping it, screwed again.

 

I begin to wonder who we should fear most.

 

Finally the general public who in affect believe we have absolutely no say in this country, on how it's run but bitch from our armchairs, this government must clap their hands in glee on how easy we make it for them.

 

Yet recently we had a perfect example of what people power could do, Madrid, bombed on the Thursday, Government ousted by the Sunday, not because the government were universally unpopular or the population had had enough of them and wanted a change but because the government lied and was caught doing so, OK I know it was just before the election but they were on a home run, they had it in the bag, three days is all it took, that's people power, they got out of their arm chairs.

 

In one way I admire the French for that ability to, don't like something, they change it.

 

The simplest solution is to say that whomsoever is in this country now is British.

 

Absolutely not Gurugal, are you really suggesting that those radicals here in this country, ( some in prison), that have preached, hate and death or at least have blood on their hands should be allowed to stay and become British citizens, I think not.

 

new immigrants must then be regulated as to numbers and access to benefits and housing

 

I agree with you, we should not allow ourselves to be swamped but if we are regulating the numbers, then we are controlling the influx, as such then those people we allow in should have full access to benefits and housing as required.

 

Your not suggesting Gurugal we have a policy of controlled immigration, of welcome to the UK, now live in a tent and starve.

 

Remove the apartheid that exists with these extreme religious sects.

 

How would you achieve this? people of a particular train of thought, not necessarily religious, will always find each other and the danger is any government would abuse any method to prevent this, to their own ends.

 

and enforce integration

 

But that's a two way street, I don't have a problem but I suspect you would Gurugal, being enforced to live in Southhall or Bradford.

 

Then lastly and probably most contentiously we need to regulate the media - they and they alone are responsible for this whole mess.

 

No there not, people who plant bombs, preach hate and encourage the killing of others are but they do make very good bed partners, they and the British press.

 

the problem will be how to do this without compromising free speech.

 

Simple,let us all stop buying the *******newspapers that keep bull ******* to us, a week or two of no news paper sales, that'll do it.

 

Free speech shouldn't grant the media the right to cause the problems they do.

 

Agreed.

 

Finaly,when will the Western world wake up, it's not what we are that offends, it's what we do.

 

Edit, my appogies for the italics, I unable to get the quotes boxes to work, I can't see the mistake.

Edited October 24, 2006 by seacam

[Guest seacam]

Hello Gurugal,

 

Why does everybody seem to think all kids should be able to afford their own house at 19 or 20?

 

I don't think they do, do they? it's the other way around, that come thirty, they still won't be able to afford it.

 

Don't take out a second mortgage - extend your current house and let them live with you -

 

My wife and I don't have a problem with that but our kids might.

 

That way no w***er is going to knock down all the nice houses where you live and replace family homes with bloody luxury flats your kids or you can't afford.

 

Oh dear, I think you would find me one of those w***kers. :21:

 

Not that I'm bothered of course. :ph34r:

 

Of course not.

[Guest seacam]

Hello NicNac

 

Please dont get me wrong...... there's no way i'm what you could call a racist, in fact one of my best friends is a Hindu. But even she will admit to using her religion and colour to her advantage, she told me about the time she started to cry and sob in the local council offices because she said that she was being racially disscriminated. They caved in within minutes and gave her a 4 bedroom council house......... she got back in her car and drove of smilling. I'm sure that if i was to try and pull the same stunt..... they'd have called security, and i'd have gone to the bottom of the waiting list.

 

Yep and that's what's wrong with living in a PC world and her council were utterly wrong in giving in.

 

Anyway, that's all i want to say except to say i'm not racist...... but, i does annoy me when i see others blatantly using their religion/cult to bypass the system or 'jump the queue' or to 'point-the-finger' and say.......... etc, etc, etc,

 

I never thought you a racist and yes it would annoy most of us.

 

p.s. at the moment i'm trying to get my mother to remember who and where my relatives come from on her side (she's got early stages of alzheimer's), and at the moment i know i'm 25% Dutch South African, 25% Spanish, 25% Sweedish and 25% English......... or so she tells me :ph34r:

 

For the last ten years of her life my Mother suffered with Demensia, she lived with us, she died in April this year, we/I miss her, she was great fun and the kids adored her.

[mumof4]

This is an open forum, which means technically it is a family forum.If you must swear then abbreviate it or miss spell it or use the star key.

This is a heated topic and i would please ask that all those posting in it..do not swear unless in the ways i have described above.

 

Marian.

[Guest Gurugal]

I think that the Mods should close this topic.

We have a number of differing views - which you would expect.

 

However in Seacam we appear to have some sort of quasi political posturist who believes the only intelligent position is his own. Other opinions are not valid.

 

He lectures us on his politics and purports to a Socialist stance yet is equally happy with exploitation of the people in buying and selling properties - then has the gall to complain that his kids won't be able to buy the houses he has bought and sold on at huge profit. Must be a New Labour member.

 

When in the the Services there are two subjects banned from the officers mess (by consent) Politics & Religion. Perhaps we should do the same here.

[NikNak]

Gurugal hi....

 

 

I agree, this is a very complex issue, and clearly some wish to 'express' more strongly than others.

 

Thanks all who have taken the trouble to read, and reply, to this particular tpoic.

 

So.... as the originator of this topic, can i please ask mumof4 to now close it..?

 

 

 

Then read my next topic........ explosive..?? probably..!!

 

 

Nick

[mumof4]

I will if you can give me a good enough reason to.

 

Just because some feel more strongly than others...why does that mean it has to be closed?

 

[NikpV]

I can see no reason yet to close this topic, it is a debating forum some of the views expressed have been extreme and some interesting and some incredibly callow - but we are a cross section of society and surely we can expect that - why do you want to close the topic???

 

However in Seacam we appear to have some sort of quasi political posturist who believes the only intelligent position is his own. Other opinions are not valid.

 

surely this is the essense of debate

 

 

you can now respond, putting forward your arguments some of which may sway others who perhaps haven't formed opinions/not thought it through yet as with most debates you cannot change the main protagonists views