Veils...... Closed by Glen exhausted subject

[Guest seacam]

Get the BNP in

 

Then we'll see!

 

Enough said!

 

Really!, what are you so scared of?, what is clear is it's ignorance that makes you so

[Ivor_E_Tower]

 

 

Hello Bigjeeze,

 

The death penalty is not a deterent to crime, it has never worked and never will.

 

It does stop re-offending if the criminal is caught first time round though.....

[Guest seacam]

 

 

Hello Bigjeeze,

 

The death penalty is not a deterent to crime, it has never worked and never will.

 

It does stop re-offending if the criminal is caught first time round though.....

 

Hello Ivor,

 

of course but it doesn't stop the crime from being recomitted by others, thus as a deterent the DP does not work.

[Guest Crusher]

:D

[Guest Crusher]

:angry:

[Guest seacam]

 

 

Hello Bigjeeze,

 

The death penalty is not a deterent to crime, it has never worked and never will.

 

It does stop re-offending if the criminal is caught first time round though.....

 

Hello Ivor,

 

of course but it doesn't stop the crime from being recomitted by others, thus as a deterent the DP does not work.

 

I think seacam that you are making the fundamental mistake most abolitionsists make - people do not think necessarily that capital punishment is a deterrent - it's more like revenge and practical good sense - if you have killed once you can kill again - but not if you too are dead, in addtion no murderers in prison - no costs to house clothe feed and guard them. Kinda makes sense all round doesn't it!

 

Most moral objections to CP are that "What if we make a mistake" - ensure that you don't is the answer!

 

Hello Crusher,

 

I'm not sure I am an abolitionsists what I am sure of however is that the UK as a state must never be a party to or even seen to be allowing CP as a form of revenge.

 

The problem with the DP is if innocent you can't bring an executed person back and once the state or jury get it wrong they loose any credability to judge.

 

My anti stance on CP is at times sorely tested at times but I know absolutly, the Birmingham six would have hung and yet were found innocent, Derek Bentley, innocent, Bakewell and so.

 

A prison life sentence must mean that, as for myself, I would rather pay a heavier tax then an innocent person executed.

 

Another thing I am sure of is, as a collector of evidence the police authorities are biased and corrupt, knowing this and charged with a CP offence, yet innocent, all I can say is thank goodness here in the UK we no longer have the DP.

[Guest Crusher]

:D

[Guest seacam]

Hello Crusher,

 

They have no credibility to judge as it is - they are fools and worse they are liars and self serving egomaniacs.

 

All goverments are self serving and yes they all the bad qualities you mention but in most cases it is a jury that decides and a judge that passes sentence, you've slightly missed the point I was making into why I feel CP is not an option.

 

You are of course entitled to your view as am I and everyone else .

 

Yes and I welcolme your views and opinions,----and we don't have to agree.

 

The Birmingham Six and the Guidford Four were not found innocent - their convictions were unsafe -That does not mean they were innocnet but that the process was corrupted.

 

I stand corrected about the B 6 and the G 4 but the bottom line is their guilt is not proved, their convictions were unsafe, the process was corrupt, however, in all likely hood, at the time, they would have been executed.

 

The curious thing is that althoug the police undoubtedly manipulated the evidence they have never ever looked for anyone else for those crimes.

 

If you read what you wrote Crusher they wouldn't would they.

 

Derek Bentley was not found innocent - He was Guilty - He was there he was with an armed man he condoned the carrying and use of arms and knew the penalty.

 

Again I stand corrected, DB was indeed found guility, why, because of corrupt coppers, corrupt process and a shite legal team.

 

For the record there wasn't with an armed man but an armed boy on that roof, they couldn't hang a boy so the state hung a man and an innocent man or at least innocent of murder.

 

Remember Chrusher, DB was already under arrest and in the arms, ( literaly ), of two policemen.

 

I'm as sure as I can be that " let him have it " meant, give 'em the gun Chris, give up.

 

I am tired of this argument - the Police have corrupt elements but are not totally corrupt - Lawyers however are.

 

Yep, so are estate agents.

 

It is not a question of what I want it must be what everyone or the majority wants.

 

Well I hope in this instance the majority don't get what they want, I also suspect the police would speak out against CP

[faz]

I don't agree with women wearing veils in our country but isnt the death penalty a bit severe.

[Guest seacam]

I don't agree with women wearing veils in our country but isnt the death penalty a bit severe.

 

Hello Faz,

 

Why don't you agree with veils?

[Guest MATT jr]

i don

[mumof4]

well i personally think there is a slight difference between helmets and veils!..are helmets a religion or a belief?

 

I do hear what you are saying though,

 

just like a cross is a symbol of religion and belief, as is the sign of the fish that you see on cars..(symbol of christianity.)

 

How would we feel if we were told that no one was allowed to wear crosses anymore..or had to take the symbol of the fish off their cars or windows?..would there not be an outcry?..

 

i think we should all respect each othres beliefs and faiths.

 

I dont see how a woman wearing a veil can be unfair on us...

[teresa]

i don

[Guest seacam]

Hello Matt,

 

i don

[Guest MATT jr]

its unfair on us, because if we went to their country - u would be punished for not following their way.

 

there was a case not so long ago, where three men were shot dead because they were wearing shorts (thus revealing their legs/knees)

 

SO - should we shoot dead all those that wear veils? no - because we are more forgiving, and too SOFT.

 

i dont care what colour/shape/size u are,,, but its their way of thinking that pi$$es me off.

 

and they use our law, to their complete advantage, they abuse it!

 

we cannot class all Muslims as being the same - cos their not.

 

i have old friends who are Muslim - they tend to follow our ways, but the parents are full against our faith, and believe it is false - wheres the respect for other religions their?

 

im not aiming this post at any individual on this forum - these are simply my views on the subject, to which not everyone will agree.

 

MJR

[Guest VR6!]

its unfair on us, because if we went to their country - u would be punished for not following their way.

 

 

MJR

 

 

I would hope that as it's you that are visiting their country, I really hope that's it you that that get shot and not us!

[Guest Gurugal]

its unfair on us, because if we went to their country - u would be punished for not following their way.

 

there was a case not so long ago, where three men were shot dead because they were wearing shorts (thus revealing their legs/knees)

 

SO - should we shoot dead all those that wear veils? no - because we are more forgiving, and too SOFT.

 

i dont care what colour/shape/size u are,,, but its their way of thinking that pi$$es me off.

 

and they use our law, to their complete advantage, they abuse it!

 

we cannot class all Muslims as being the same - cos their not.

 

i have old friends who are Muslim - they tend to follow our ways, but the parents are full against our faith, and believe it is false - wheres the respect for other religions their?

 

im not aiming this post at any individual on this forum - these are simply my views on the subject, to which not everyone will agree.

 

MJR

 

 

Do we have Adrian Mole here? <_< :lol: :)

[Guest seacam]

Hello Matt,

 

its unfair on us, because if we went to their country - u would be punished for not following their way.

 

No, you, I or anyone else wouldn't be as long as we didn't cause deliberate offence.

 

there was a case not so long ago, where three men were shot dead because they were wearing shorts (thus revealing their legs/knees)

 

No, this reason was used as an excuse for commiting murder.

 

SO - should we shoot dead all those that wear veils? no - because we are more forgiving, and too SOFT.

 

I'm not sure you mean forgiving, tollrant perhasp and you may well have a point, being soft has nothing to to with the issues.

 

i dont care what colour/shape/size u are,,, but its their way of thinking that pi$$es me off.

 

What way of thginking is that?

 

and they use our law, to their complete advantage, they abuse it!

 

Yes some do and other races as well but in doing so they show up our imperfections in our laws and our hyporicacy.

 

we cannot class all Muslims as being the same - cos their not.

 

i have old friends who are Muslim - they tend to follow our ways, but the parents are full against our faith, and believe it is false - wheres the respect for other religions their?

 

Yes they can be intollarant, as for religious respect, the Catholic and C&E faiths still have a healthy pop at each other, every so often.

 

im not aiming this post at any individual on this forum - these are simply my views on the subject, to which not everyone will agree.

 

And your views are as valid as anyone elses on this forum.

[NikNak]

Oh my gawd................ did i open a can of worms or what...? :)

 

My initial posting was only meant to be in humour.......... you know, both looking through a crack

 

And it went on to include hangings, the death penalty, religions and faiths....... you name it i think it was covered.

 

Mind you it did bring something back to me that a schoolboy friend once said when we were both in our early teens, around the early to mid 70's dont remember exactly......... anyway, he said "Enoch (Powell) was right......" I didn't know what he meant at the time....... i understand now.

 

 

Anyway........... if you enjoyed that topic, just wait till you read my next thread. Now THAT is/will be one to have a good rant about......!! :angry2:

 

Nick

[adrianf.]

well i personally think there is a slight difference between helmets and veils!..are helmets a religion or a belief?

 

I do hear what you are saying though,

 

just like a cross is a symbol of religion and belief, as is the sign of the fish that you see on cars..(symbol of christianity.)

 

How would we feel if we were told that no one was allowed to wear crosses anymore..or had to take the symbol of the fish off their cars or windows?..would there not be an outcry?..

 

i think we should all respect each othres beliefs and faiths.

 

I dont see how a woman wearing a veil can be unfair on us...

Oh i thought that if you saw a fish on the back of a car it meant that you ate all of a jumbo cod meal at Harry Ramsdons.

Sorry my mistake

[NikpV]

well i personally think there is a slight difference between helmets and veils!..are helmets a religion or a belief?

 

I do hear what you are saying though,

 

just like a cross is a symbol of religion and belief, as is the sign of the fish that you see on cars..(symbol of christianity.)

 

How would we feel if we were told that no one was allowed to wear crosses anymore..or had to take the symbol of the fish off their cars or windows?..would there not be an outcry?..

 

i think we should all respect each othres beliefs and faiths.

 

I dont see how a woman wearing a veil can be unfair on us...

Oh i thought that if you saw a fish on the back of a car it meant that you ate all of a jumbo cod meal at Harry Ramsdons.

Sorry my mistake

 

 

fish = creationist (why)

fish with stubby legs = Evolutionist :angry2: :)

[anadin]

a muslim woman knocked on my door today

i didn't open the door, i just talked to her through the letterbox

 

she how she bloody likes it :angry2:

[Guest seacam]

Hello Nick,

 

Mind you it did bring something back to me that a schoolboy friend once said when we were both in our early teens, around the early to mid 70's dont remember exactly......... anyway, he said "Enoch (Powell) was right......" I didn't know what he meant at the time....... i understand now.

 

I'm not sure you do Nick.

 

In Powell's 1968 Rivers of Blood Speech, he said and it was a long speech,

 

"As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood".

 

Whilist he felt he had to say what he said, if you read the speech all he did was tap into his own and a lot of others fear on imigration, fear brought about by ignorance.

 

When Powell spoke about whole areas of the UK being taken over by imigrants he was talking about numbers not diversity, he knew all about numbers but could see no further then the end of his nose about the good imigration had brought to the UK.

 

Like it or not, then, ( 40 or 50 years ago ), or now this country couldn't and can't survive without imigrants.

 

The RoB speech has nothing to do with the rights or wrongs of wearing the Niqab.

[NikpV]

The RoB speech has nothing to do with the rights or wrongs of wearing the Niqab.

 

agreed

 

 

Given that most of our ancesters were immigrants here at some time I am quite surprised at the amount of intolerance voiced here :angry2:

[Guest seacam]

The RoB speech has nothing to do with the rights or wrongs of wearing the Niqab.

 

agreed

 

 

Given that most of our ancesters were immigrants here at some time I am quite surprised at the amount of intolerance voiced here :angry2:

 

Hello NicpV

 

Yeh, excactly

 

My mother, all Sothern Irish, my Dad, well there's a story.

 

I'm not that surprised, so many think we are being taken advantaged of and we are but it's by a few, the nations tolerance is being tested but as a nation we have to pratice what we preach.