Tuning Boxes

[gio]

IT 'S A GRAY AREA BUT MY OLD MAN IS MAD ON TDI HE THINKS THE TUNIT BOX IS MORE TROUBLE THAN ITS WORTH LIKE INCREASE ON PRESSURE ON INJECTORS THE DAMAGE HES SHOWN ME AND COST CUSTOMER HAVE HAD TO PAY. HE TOLD ME THE FIRST DESIEL ENGINES RAN ON PEA NUT OIL AND 2 GET MORE POWER U WOULD AD MORE AIR NOT MORE FUEL SO ADING MORE AIR AND FUEL LIKE THESE CHIPS HOW CAN IT GIVE U BETTER MPG U R JUST FORCEING FUEL AND AIR QUICKER INTO THE ENGINE.( JUST PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN MORE) OR CHANGE THE AMOUNT AIR GOING IN TOO THE ENGINE AND JUST AS IMPORTANT GAS LEAVING THE EXHAUST. i PUT A RACING CAT ON MY GALAXY BY DPF ITS A METAL CAT NOT A PLATIUM AND CERAMIC AND IT'S ALL GOOD ON M.O.T TEST JUST MAKE SURE CAT IS RED HOT ON TEST . REMOVED MID SEACTION OF EXHAUST STRAGHT THROUGH STAINLESS PIPE AND STANLESS STEEL REAR BOX BUT NOT EXPOSED BOX I DONT WANT TO LOOK LIKE A GARY BOY MADE A COPY OF OLD SYSTEM BUT WITH BIGGER EXITS. I THINK MY OLD MAN PUT A PANEL FILTER BY BMC COTTON ITS MADE A DIFFERNCE TOO FUEL ECOM MUCH BETTER AND POWER IS MUCH SMOOTHER BETTER ROLLING ROAD 133.5 BHP FROM STANARD 90BHP ENGINE AND FROM 600MILES TANK TO 750 AV

 

 

Sorry alick, something is a miss here.You do realise you have condridicked yourself!, you cannot get all that extra power without changing the fueling and upper the psi on your turbo.

In otherwords a remap would have needed to have been done to get from 90 to 130bhp! and on a nice hot day,without a bigger intercooler[does the 90 bhp have one?] you will simply have a real nice very hot engine because its air mixture will be too hot and of a limiting capacity.

In otherwords just as bad for the car as a badly done tunning box...

[sepulchrave]

Shameless Necromancy!

 

Cotton filters are pants (in fact cotton pants are filters too :blink: ).

 

Just take the airbox lid off and chuck handfuls of fine grit into your engine while it's running for the same effect with no uneccesary expenditure.

 

A good remap works by bypassing all those pesky emissions requirements the manufacturers have to meet and matching fuelling to the engines actual needs, thereby improving torque throughout, on electronically controlled turbos you can alter the boost levels at different engine speeds too and often increase full boost slightly. A good remap is time consuming to do and involves lots of expensive equipment and a highly skilled operator (these are rare). Wayne at Chipwizards in Rochdale is fantastic at it.

 

Therefore you can theoretically save fuel by using less throttle for a given engine load, in practice of course you end up spanking it more often because it's faster and more fun to drive and because you're a muppet anyway. :angry2:

Edited July 5, 2008 by sepulchrave

[Alick]

IM JUST RUSHING IM AT WORK AT MO . DONT BE A DICK . AND NO NOT INTER COOLER BIGGER RAD THOUGH IM MORE BODY SHOP BUT OLD MAN PLAYED WITH IT SO HE MAY OF PLAYED WITH ECU POSS . GET WITH IT MUST BE OLD GIT. O YA AND THESE PIGGY BACK CHIP THAT PUT YOUR CAR IN COLD START MODE WHATS THAT ABOUT, I'VE BEEN TOLD IT ALLOWS MORE AIR IN THE ENGINE SO MORE POWER APPAR

[veedyf]

here we go....you have 1 on every site dont you

[Alick]

I NOT MUCH GAIN FROM PANEL FILTER I KNOW .CHEAP IN LONG RUN ON SERVICE *** JOCKY

[gio]

IM JUST RUSHING IM AT WORK AT MO . DONT BE A DICK . AND NO NOT INTER COOLER BIGGER RAD THOUGH IM MORE BODY SHOP BUT OLD MAN PLAYED WITH IT SO HE MAY OF PLAYED WITH ECU POSS . GET WITH IT MUST BE OLD GIT. O YA AND THESE PIGGY BACK CHIP THAT PUT YOUR CAR IN COLD START MODE WHATS THAT ABOUT, I'VE BEEN TOLD IT ALLOWS MORE AIR IN THE ENGINE SO MORE POWER APPAR

 

!You either know what the old man did, or you don't,and from what i am reading, you simple don't know much about tunning! talk about being a dick!

 

"played with the ECU" you came on here and claimed huge bhp, gains by changing the air filter and a more freeflow exhaust, now your tune has changed alittle,which isn't surprising as you do not know much about it.

 

As to the old man "may have played with the ECU! ".

 

This isn't old timer tunning where you simply up the fuel on the pump and manually adjust the actuator on the turbo! To play with the ecu, you need speicalist equipement so you can talk to it and even more speicalist stuff to flash over the original maps!

 

From what you have said so far,this is not the case,otherwise you would know about this costly equipement that is needed,and the still quite costly to buy maps.

 

As to your last statement " cold start mode piggyback chips and more air",tottally wrong!, the idea of cold start is to give an engine more fuel! not air,as a diesel already burns with an excess of air anyway,That why these piggyback chips actually work in the first place, primative yes,but not all of them are just a cheap resistor.

[gregers]

alick turn the BLOODY caps off!!!!!!!!!

[sepulchrave]

IM JUST RUSHING IM AT WORK AT MO . DONT BE A DICK . AND NO NOT INTER COOLER BIGGER RAD THOUGH IM MORE BODY SHOP BUT OLD MAN PLAYED WITH IT SO HE MAY OF PLAYED WITH ECU POSS . GET WITH IT MUST BE OLD GIT. O YA AND THESE PIGGY BACK CHIP THAT PUT YOUR CAR IN COLD START MODE WHATS THAT ABOUT, I'VE BEEN TOLD IT ALLOWS MORE AIR IN THE ENGINE SO MORE POWER APPAR

 

Dude, there are two things I know which you don't:

 

One is what I'm talking about, and the other is my age.

 

Some of the other things I know are:

 

My Shazza is faster than yours because I drive a big valve VR6 whereas you drive a diesel.

 

How to make engines more powerful because it's what I do for a living.

 

Why you work in the body shop and how you got that job.

 

Finally, I know that I don't know everything but you really should know by now that you don't know anything.

 

Now, because I'm a generous guy who doesn't charge for his expertise go and ask your Dad for a Long Stand for your car, it'll improve your fuel economy dramatically!

[rodders]

I am getting fed up to the back teeth being stuck in queues behind newish cars (volvos seem to be the main culprits) which belch out black smoke every time they nudge a few feet forwards.

 

Tuning boxes work by either artifically extending the injection times or massaging MAF/temp readings to the ECU. The ECU is unaware that something is wrong with its kit.....therefore emmision control is out the window. Not only is the car breaking the (EU) law, its poisioning those kiddies in the buggies at the roadsides, and the driver is blissfully unaware that his oil is sooting up several times faster than normal and engine wear is likely when the oil is "saturated". Also the idea of better mpg is largely a myth, the ECU is unaware that the metering of the fuel has been tampered with and calculates mpg according to the manufacturer's original setting.

 

Remapping is a different kettle of fish, but I am pretty sure that the ECU manufacturer doesnt release code and most outfits reverse engineer code. I am also sure that they do not have anywhere near the equipment and knowledge to remap and stay with emission limits - which by law has to be for the lifetime of the engine....

[rodders]

I am getting fed up to the back teeth being stuck in queues behind newish cars (volvos seem to be the main culprits) which belch out black smoke every time they nudge a few feet forwards.

 

Tuning boxes work by either artifically extending the injection times or massaging MAF/temp readings to the ECU. The ECU is unaware that something is wrong with its kit.....therefore emmision control is out the window. Not only is the car breaking the (EU) law, its poisioning those kiddies in the buggies at the roadsides, and the driver is blissfully unaware that his oil is sooting up several times faster than normal and engine wear is likely when the oil is "saturated". Also the idea of better mpg is largely a myth, the ECU is unaware that the metering of the fuel has been tampered with and calculates mpg according to the manufacturer's original setting.

 

Remapping is a different kettle of fish, but I am pretty sure that the ECU manufacturer doesnt release code and most outfits reverse engineer code. I am also sure that they do not have anywhere near the equipment and knowledge to remap and stay with emission limits - which by law has to be for the lifetime of the engine....

[chicken_arse_legs]

Hi everyone,

 

I see everyone is having a bit of a slanging match here.

 

Is the the serial port thing the same as tuning box????

 

Does anyone have an idea?

[rodders]

dont know wheather its to late to get in on this iv got a 115pd tdi sharan as with the price of derv i was thinking of one of these boxes until i saw my mate who had one on his passat..took it of as coming up to 12 months of using it loads of smoke & cost him a cat...so as i needed more mpg looked into remap..after research had it done...very good money back deal if it wasnt proved..so i did,after month of driving gone from 36.5 to 41.5mpg round town to 55 on a run...im made up..also gone from 115 to 150bhp and best of all less gear changes because of the increased torque wich has gone from 310 to 380...great when fully loaded...dont get me wrong im not advertising anything but my opinion is stuff this cheap has got to have side affects but then again you get what you pay for..i had my money back for remap in 2 and a half months thats my saving but thats my view..also dont know if anyone has had the limp mode thing on ther 115 i spent small fortune on trying to solve this to no avail..since my remap havent had it since my guess is its a power thing hardly hear of it on 130 or higher..wich is another reason i had it done...thanks anyway...ps also rang my insurance & to my surprise no extra money ...(bonus) also if your a f1 driver & are after mpg forget this the power gain is great but mpg crap...

[mk2vr6]

so as i needed more mpg looked into remap..

..so i did,after month of driving gone from 36.5 to 41.5mpg round town to 55 on a run...im made up..also gone from 115 to 150bhp and best of all less gear changes because of the increased torque wich has gone from 310 to 380...

but then again you get what you pay for..i had my money back for remap in 2 and a half months thats my saving...

ps also rang my insurance & to my surprise no extra money ...(bonus) also if your a f1 driver & are after mpg forget this the power gain is great but mpg crap...

 

 

just how many times do you mean to contradict yourself? you needed better mpg but got power, then your saying your saved enough to pay for the remap! how was that done? you stopped smoking, drinking? eating? and then you tell us not to bother if your looking for improved mpg as its crap but the power gains are great!

do you have a dyno print out for these amazing increases or just the tuners word?

[rodders]

smart arse hey who just tries to read between lines..what i am saying is my ultimate gain is mpg but as an added bonus iv got the power as well...and also if you read properly you will see that after it was done i had a month trial and if i didnt benifit got money back...& the contridiction is that if your after more power this is great but forget your mpg as you wont get it something that you will never have drivin a vr6(mpg that is)...yes i do did have before & after figure & a graph to show boost and stuff,but my money back come due to miles gained on mpg saving im noy t total or a boy racer as vr6 drivers are probabley aged about late thirties aswell are you going through midlife crises,mpg savings cant appeal to you with driving a vr6 so whats your problem im just tring to give my opinion on not gettin tuning box...

[chicken_arse_legs]

smart arse hey who just tries to read between lines..what i am saying is my ultimate gain is mpg but as an added bonus iv got the power as well...and also if you read properly you will see that after it was done i had a month trial and if i didnt benifit got money back...& the contridiction is that if your after more power this is great but forget your mpg as you wont get it something that you will never have drivin a vr6(mpg that is)...yes i do did have before & after figure & a graph to show boost and stuff,but my money back come due to miles gained on mpg saving im noy t total or a boy racer as vr6 drivers are probabley aged about late thirties aswell are you going through midlife crises,mpg savings cant appeal to you with driving a vr6 so whats your problem im just tring to give my opinion on not gettin tuning box...

 

 

So How much did it cost you rodders? and where?

 

I did get bit confused,

so you got it mapped for more mpg and it gave you more power aswell.

but what your saying is if you get it mapped for more power rather than mapping for more mpg then the mpg wont be as good as factory setting right?

[rodders]

thats right apparently i could have got up to 170bhp or there abouts but its all about the torque thats how im getting my mpg...less gear changes as the car has more power so not in gear as long also better throttle response.. obviousley if i just booted it everywhere id be at a loss...also better overtaking when required...the deal i got in merseyside but he also does mobile in northwest area price was 2 cars done

[mk2vr6]

if you can scan in the before and after rolling road charts and post them we would all love to see the increase in power and torque figures :rolleyes: and tbh I still dont understand what your saying about the increase in power or mpg you seem to contradict yourself so often that it's confusing on what you actually have gained?

[mk2vr6]

if you can scan in the before and after rolling road charts and post them we would all love to see the increase in power and torque figures :rolleyes: and tbh I still dont understand what your saying about the increase in power or mpg you seem to contradict yourself so often that it's confusing on what you actually have gained?

[sepulchrave]

Clearly a decent remap, although I don't understand why you refer to a rolling road mk2vr6.

 

If your engine is box standard then a generic map optimised for your particular engine is perfect and much cheaper than a dynamic remap from scratch, the closed loop lambda will have the scope to make any corrections necessary for the tiny differences between your particular PD130 (or whatever) and any other. This is why 'chiptuning' works only on standard engines.

 

Where you DO need a rolling road is for any significant deviation from standard, i.e. hairy cams and headwork, turbo, exhaust manifolding etc.

Please note I do NOT include bolt on rubbish like 'induction' kits and 'decat' systems, these are generally a very expensive way of gaining nothing more than a 'sporty' noise and more often than not they actually lose power.

 

In the case of any 12v VR6 the ONLY mods which actually work are a big valve head pocket ported to suit (large inlets only, not exhausts) and mild duration high lift cams preferably with a high volume plenum conversion. This state of tune gives around 200 bhp with a large increase in torque from tickover upwards, which means improved fuel economy under normal driving conditions due to the substantially lighter throttle openings and ability to pull taller gears earlier.

 

I have not bothered with a remap since the standard MAF is easily able to cope with the increase in airflow at lower rpm and the engine retains it's power peak at 5600 rpm, simply making more torque everywhere else. I can now get ~28 mpg with this spec. and overtaking/hillclimbing when laden is so much easier.

 

I want to wrap this subject up with some simple statements of fact:

 

'tuning' boxes are rubbish, they deceive the ECU into doing something it shouldn't but they're cheap.

A 'rechip' or 'remap' when done expertly and intelligently simply replaces the compromised manufacturers standard map with a map properly optimised for the engine, therefore they're more expensive but much more effective.

 

Don't consider any of these things unless your standard EMS is in tip-top condition with all sensors, connectors and components in perfect working order.

 

If anyone with a 12v VR6 is actually interested I can provide the specs. necessary for your own high torque conversion.

[mk2vr6]

although I don't understand why you refer to a rolling road mk2vr6.

 

because there are enough people out there that shout about how they can re-map your vehicle just with their lap top and give you a print off to prove their claims, a session on a decent rolling road has dissapointed many people! my mate use to run one and the figures people would bandy about after such a re-map were seldom seen!

[rodders]

what sept said above is correct alls im saying is im saving money on less trips to get derv as i now travel further per full tank eg: i get on average per full tank & the way i drive between 50 to 80 more miles per tank so long term iv got my 250 perchase price back...and the power is there when require ie overtaking...thats it from me on this subject ...remap workes for me..steer clear of cheap tuning boxes...

[chicken_arse_legs]

Hi all,

 

Does anyone know where I may get my galaxy remapped in east London for more MPG, can anyone recommend me a place?

And also let me know how much it would cost?

 

Thanks!

[rodders]

Hi all,

 

Does anyone know where I may get my galaxy remapped in east London for more MPG, can anyone recommend me a place?

And also let me know how much it would cost?

 

Thanks!

 

 

do your homework first to see which is best for you if its a tdi you can get between 30 to 50% more power plus around 70nm more torque...if petrol about 10 -20% more gain if turbo version non turbo save your dough youll gain nothing....the best one i know of down south stratford on avon is dna tuning..john his name is look on the net for him even just to pick his brains very helpfull...he also does ecu postal remaps when distance is an issue...bassically take your ecu out send recorded you have it back in 3 days downfall is your without a bus for a couple of days...most tuners do postal for a cheaper price dna for example charge

[chicken_arse_legs]

Hi all,

 

Does anyone know where I may get my galaxy remapped in east London for more MPG, can anyone recommend me a place?

And also let me know how much it would cost?

 

Thanks!

 

 

do your homework first to see which is best for you if its a tdi you can get between 30 to 50% more power plus around 70nm more torque...if petrol about 10 -20% more gain if turbo version non turbo save your dough youll gain nothing....the best one i know of down south stratford on avon is dna tuning..john his name is look on the net for him even just to pick his brains very helpfull...he also does ecu postal remaps when distance is an issue...bassically take your ecu out send recorded you have it back in 3 days downfall is your without a bus for a couple of days...most tuners do postal for a cheaper price dna for example charge

[rodders]

http://www.dnatuning.com (john) stratford upon avon -also postal - Edited August 13, 2008 by rodders