right ok to tell the story had the misses complain abot 2 weeks ago about the lake that had formed in the car. She wasnt happy :( So with help from this forum i knowingly told her that the water pipe for the rear wash wipe had come loose. so I disconnected the rear feed, cut the mat out to dry out, and then reasembled a couple of days later. Job done or so i thought. Now last week the loch had reappared complete with nessie the monster. More ear bashing pursued. So back to the forum, must be the scuttle drains i concluded :). a half hour or so of work only to find after removing the wheel arch linings that there was no blockages and i could easily get a couple of finger throught the hold. So now I'm stumpped. If anyone has any futher ideas i'd be glad to try them.