Tdi 130 Sluggish Starting

[ninjakev]

I've tried searching the archives, but to no avail, so here goes..............my 2003 TDI 130 is getting more difficult to start, more especially with the colder weather. I let the glowplugs warm up sufficiently, but it still chugs on start-up, with a large puff of blue/white smoke almost like it's running on 3 or less pots. I've tried giving it a squirt of throttle when it fires, but that makes no difference. It's got 48700 miles on it and it's due a service in 1300 miles, so due I get the garage to give it an injector clean or is it something more sinister??

 

Any help will be deserving of a chocolate hobnob!

[NikpV]

Possibly one glowplug gone u/s.

 

If you turn the ignition on and off a couple of times - does it make any difference - possbly battery not at its best anymore

[ninjakev]

I've tried searching the archives, but to no avail, so here goes..............my 2003 TDI 130 is getting more difficult to start, more especially with the colder weather. I let the glowplugs warm up sufficiently, but it still chugs on start-up, with a large puff of blue/white smoke almost like it's running on 3 or less pots. I've tried giving it a squirt of throttle when it fires, but that makes no difference. It's got 48700 miles on it and it's due a service in 1300 miles, so due I get the garage to give it an injector clean or is it something more sinister??

 

Any help will be deserving of a chocolate hobnob!

 

I think the battery is maybe going duff (it's over 3 years old), but I can't understand why that would make it "chug". BTW it's my first diesel so I'm open to more suggestions!

[littledaz]

but I can't understand why that would make it "chug"

 

I agree with NikpV.

 

Sounds as if one or more of your glow plugs is faulty. The engine requires heat to ignite the diesel. If a glow plug fails, the diesel will not be ignited initially, thus making the engine chug and smoke at startup due to the unburnt fuel. I take it after it's started, it runs OK, with no smoke and starts OK when hot. On the PD TDI engine, the glow plugs generally switch on below 10 degrees C so, will be more noticeable with the current cold temperatures.

 

When do I get my choc hobnob? :wub:

 

ld

[Guest gooner52]

 

sorry only have chocko fags

 

 

[NikpV]

I agree with NikpV.

 

wow - glad somebody does, do the glowplugs only come on for the time that the glowplug light is on LD

 

oh by the way - best I can do.....

 

[littledaz]

You're all mad!!!!!!!! lol :lol: :wub:

 

NikpV - the glow plugs are permanently on with the glow plug light illuminated. This is the glow phase. The system then goes into an after-glow phase where they are switched on and off when needed to help smooth running and emission control. This only lasts for about 5 mins though and is cutoff over 2500rpm.

[NikpV]

You're all mad!!!!!!!! lol :lol: :wub:

 

NikpV - the glow plugs are permanently on with the glow plug light illuminated. This is the glow phase. The system then goes into an after-glow phase where they are switched on and off when needed to help smooth running and emission control. This only lasts for about 5 mins though and is cutoff over 2500rpm.

 

 

cheers you have no idea the threads we have had about this - from 'key in lock - glowplugs go on' to 'car telepathically knows you are approaching and turns them on' :lol: :lol:

 

 

oh yes we are all

 

[Guest wolfie]

cheers you have no idea the threads we have had about this - from 'key in lock - glowplugs go on' to 'car telepathically knows you are approaching and turns them on' :wub: :lol:

 

bad picture (taken with web cam) but this is a section a tech manual by Ford about the glow plug operation!

[NikpV]

yes IIRC that was the conclusion drawn on the original thread way way back :wub: so what LD is not untrue but might not tell the whole story, certainly the glowplug light is not on when you open the door but I wonder what the preheat cycle is - full on??

[ninjakev]

Thanks for the replies folks........sorry, but I cannot send hobnobs by post - they don't travel well unfortunately. If you really want your hobnobs then you'll have to drop by :wub:

 

Once the initial starting chug is over, it runs faultlessly

 

I'm thinking I'll replace the battery first anyway and see how that goes, then if it's still chuggy then I'll get the dealer to check the glowplugs when it gets serviced.

[seatkid]

I would say your symptoms are classic glowplug failure. Its easy to check the glowplugs if you have a meter! First pull off the glowplug busbar off each plug (its tight - needs a good tug!) then using the meter, measure resistance to the engine block - IIRC it should be around 0.3 ohms. If you dont have a meter, use a 12v light bulb in series with the glowplug connector and 12v - it should light brightly. If the glowplug is duff they are usually more or less open circuit. I got premium brand NGK from my Delphi stockists at

[ninjakev]

Why change a

[ninjakev]

Righto, my local Delphi stockist is quoting

[seatkid]

www.ngk.co.uk lists Y-732U for all Mk1 diesels and Y-741U for all Mk2 diesels.

[Richard gal]

You can test them by taking them out and using jump leads, earth on the threads and positive on the terminal and watch it get red hot... so be CAREFUL!

[littledaz]

You can test them by taking them out and using jump leads, earth on the threads and positive on the terminal and watch it get red hot... so be CAREFUL!

 

Only if they are steel. If they are ceramic glow plugs they could explode! Be very careful!!!!!!!!!

I'm not 100% sure if Galaxy had ceramic ones fitted but, I wouldn't take the risk.

 

Prefer seatkid's method of testing with ohmeter or bulb. If below 1ohm, OK. Above 1ohm or open circuit, defective and replace.

[ninjakev]

Righto...........here's an update. I've tested all the glowplugs and all four of them have a resistance of 0.8-0.9 ohms. As a matter of course I replaced them all with new from a local supplier (slight difference in part number but assured they were for a 1.9 TDI) and it's still chugging on a cold start with the same amount of unburnt fuel spewing out the exhaust. If I do the ignition key-on, key-off thing 3 or 4 times it starts perfectly, but is still quite slow-ish to turnover. I still reckon it's the battery - despite previous advice I'll have spent

[NikpV]

umm does sound like it could be battery - does need to crisply turn over, suppose if th battery was a bit low then it wouldn't preheat very well so repeated preheatting should improve it as per original reply ......

[seatkid]

I still reckon it's the battery - despite previous advice I'll have spent

[jkspoff]

I once put some of that additive stuff in the diesel thats supposed to help cold starting and clears any minor issues with fuel injectors etc, it actuallyu seemed to make quite a difference, plus didn't appear to smoke as much on start up, may be a cheap idea to try before replacing parts. Does anyone know what that stuff actually does ?

[tim-spam]

At this stage I am 100% confident you have a faulty car. You can easily fix this by buying a new car. :)

Yes, but you only really need to do this if you fit a cheap battery that is not suitable for the car, and then spend ages trying to convince yourself that it's something else - then replacing the car does seem to be the only option.

 

Seriously though, it does sound as if a weakish battery may be to blame - have you tried 'jump' starting from another car when cold? If it fires cleanly, then that would seem to point to a weak battery. It may also be worth measuring the voltage with the glowplugs activated.

[Richard gal]

Im not convinced, if it cant heat the glow plugs properly then it wouldnt hardly turn over never mind start it, but a fast turn over with a new battery would help all cylinders to combust properly from the start, Trickle charging the battery overnight would sort of simulate a new battery.

 

It could also be the glowplug relay is not staying on long enough after starting.

[ninjakev]

Another update.............

 

I have replaced the battery and it is now turning over much more crisply (the old one's indicator was black, which according to the technobabble meant it was poorly). After fitting the new battery, the next (very cold) morning I started it immediately after the glowplug warning light went out (which is what I've always done) and it still spluttered and chugged a bit, accompanied a bit later by lots of smoke. I shut it down straight away, then left it for 10 minutes whereby I turned the key again and waited a good 20 seconds after the glowplug lamp went off and it started perfectly. I was always of the opinion that these beasts could be started as soon as the glowplug lamp went off, but maybe I've been doing it wrong for the last 3 years, although saying that it has been getting bad over the last 6 months, so maybe the battery was kyboshed after all. In addition I've given it some diesel injector treatment and that seems to have improved things more. I thought about dirty glowplug relay contacts - I know it doesn't take much in the way of contact burn to reduce the current delivered and since the car is over 3 years old this could be a possibility.

 

Any more ideas would be greatly received.

[Richard gal]

I wonder if its injecting too much fuel trying to avoid a stall? ....not sure how you cure that though!, but i think maybe 1 or 2 injectors are not working quite right so not getting combustion until more heat is generated.

 

Mine on a 0c morning will start without waiting for glowplug going off, and only protest a little.